It's coming out now that he heard voices, so most likely one of the psychotic disorders.
His aspergers could have developed into schizophrenia?!
Apparently certain antipsychotic meds, while OK on the neurotypical mind, can REALLY mangle the autistic brain. At one point, this stuff was being handed out like Smarties.
Can cause stuff like paranoid schizophrenia.
Or more if some different meds had been tried - then stopped.
Apparently certain antipsychotic meds, while OK on the neurotypical mind, can REALLY mangle the autistic brain. At one point, this stuff was being handed out like Smarties.
Can cause stuff like paranoid schizophrenia.
Or more if some different meds had been tried - then stopped.
Not relevant in this case. He never took medication. He was prescribed Risperidone but refused to take it.
the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say
So females do not have their own money, material things and nice cars? :rolleyes:
The issue is one of human values - he lacked in that area and his values were so linked into popularity and why? Probably because 'Daddy didn't care' IMO - he didn't even say what he thought of his son himself, he had an attorney do it for him - he used nannies, money, stuff, psychiatrists and the 'excuse' of Aspergers to relinquish his own parental responsibility towards his kid - he didn't even have a man to man talk that would have helped him know about sex and healthy relationships - his son was angry and depressed
In the manifesto it is obvious his father does not feature in his life properly and then eventually when he is suicidal and murderous they send the police - the manifesto says if the police had gone in his room they would have found the guns and the plans - why did his parents not turn up, take an interest in the descent of their son into his murder phase? That is what is was, it's not like it came from nowhere!!!!!!!!
We've had 3 generations in the States where power has rested with the mum and the money with the dad...
A matriarchal culture that has been flipped and projected and doubled down on.. and yet still called "patriarchy". Ye olde issue of each sociological change taking 20 years to come out - but 3 or 4 of them made at once?
Is it only engineers who understand that if you put too much roll, pitch and yaw at once on a structure you rip it to bits?
So we've had these harmonics increasing generation by generation... and end up with Jeremy kyle.
the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say
So females do not have their own money, material things and nice cars? :rolleyes:
The issue is one of human values - he lacked in that area and his values were so linked into popularity and why? Probably because 'Daddy didn't care' IMO - he didn't even say what he thought of his son himself, he had an attorney do it for him - he used nannies, money, stuff, psychiatrists and the 'excuse' of Aspergers to relinquish his own parental responsibility towards his kid - he didn't even have a man to man talk that would have helped him know about sex and healthy relationships - his son was angry and depressed
In the manifesto it is obvious his father does not feature in his life properly and then eventually when he is suicidal and murderous they send the police - the manifesto says if the police had gone in his room they would have found the guns and the plans - why did his parents not turn up, take an interest in the descent of their son into his murder phase? That is what is was, it's not like it came from nowhere!!!!!!!!
You really don't know enough about his father to say that.
It's common for lawyers (or spokespersons) to make statements on behalf of the family, even when they aren't celebrities. They are probably distraught out of their minds.
They had psychiatric help for him since he was 8.
He was secretive up to the point he released the manifesto.
It's really hard to know which mentally ill person will go off.
His comments about Asian and Black people in that journal, or manifesto as it is being is called are awful too. He sees them as ugly and inferior. Since he is half Asian himself, it is only his white side that redeems him and makes him beautiful he says.
Why? They just happened to share a living space with him. They were placed there by the college, he didn't choose to share with them. He didn't get along with them but then he didn't get along with anyone.
There was clearly an issue of strong self hatred towards his east asian side, it's interesting he stated that he wanted to kill his brother but expressed no such desire towards his father.
In the manifesto it is obvious his father does not feature in his life properly and then eventually when he is suicidal and murderous they send the police - the manifesto says if the police had gone in his room they would have found the guns and the plans - why did his parents not turn up, take an interest in the descent of their son into his murder phase? That is what is was, it's not like it came from nowhere!!!!!!!!
I'm beginning to wonder if they were scared of him and what he was capable of . His mother sees his youtube videos but doesn't go to see if he's okay, she calls a therapist who asks the police to go check. They reassure the mother and it's left at that. Seriously? As a mother you watch those videos and think oh well I'll leave it at that then? They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
His aunt seems to have known he was in serious difficulties despite only having met him three times, his friends mother knew and reportedly discouraged her son from going to his flat that weekend. My gut instinct is his father/step mother were frightened of him and wanted to protect the younger child from him so kept their distance.
Seems like he did all he could to tell the world that he was going to do this and nobody did anything about it
Do we start taking the internet threats of every weirdo more seriously?
Apparently the police were alerted to his internet threats by members of his family. They visited him, found he was polite but shy. At no point did they look at the threats themselves.
I call that a massive fail given it would have taken 5 minutes at most do to
I'm beginning to wonder if they were scared of him and what he was capable of . His mother sees his youtube videos but doesn't go to see if he's okay, she calls a therapist who asks the police to go check. They reassure the mother and it's left at that. Seriously? As a mother you watch those videos and think oh well I'll leave it at that then? They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
His aunt seems to have known he was in serious difficulties despite only having met him three times, his friends mother knew and reportedly discouraged her son from going to his flat that weekend. My gut instinct is his father/step mother were frightened of him and wanted to protect the younger child from him so kept their distance.
I don't think that's fair. He lived over 100 miles away from his mother. They knew he was struggling and had done especially since adolescence, they were providing psychology and psychiatry support to him on a regular basis, including in his college town. I think they knew he was distressed but not that he was genuinely murderous. He spent a lot of time at his mothers house, most weekends, but he was clearly quite secretive. I agree he probably became difficult to manage, but I don't think they didn't try.
You really don't know enough about his father to say that.
It's common for lawyers (or spokespersons) to make statements on behalf of the family, even when they aren't celebrities. They are probably distraught out of their minds.
They had psychiatric help for him since he was 8.
He was secretive up to the point he released the manifesto.
It's really hard to know which mentally ill person will go off.
Quoted from the manifesto -
My misery became harder and harder to bear, and none of my parents understood my plight. My father thought that all was well with me.
How could he be so blind?
He was so caught up in his failing work that he didn’t care about how my life was turning out. I cursed him for it. My father never made any effort to prepare me for facing such a cruel world. He never taught me how to attract girls. He never
warned me that if I didn’t attract girls at an early age, my life would fall into a miserable pit of despair!
Again...How could he be so blind?I asked myself constantly
I'm beginning to wonder if they were scared of him and what he was capable of . His mother sees his youtube videos but doesn't go to see if he's okay, she calls a therapist who asks the police to go check. They reassure the mother and it's left at that. Seriously? As a mother you watch those videos and think oh well I'll leave it at that then? They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
His aunt seems to have known he was in serious difficulties despite only having met him three times, his friends mother knew and reportedly discouraged her son from going to his flat that weekend. My gut instinct is his father/step mother were frightened of him and wanted to protect the younger child from him so kept their distance.
Reading between the lines I think he was probably always a "difficult" child who would throw terrible tantrums every time he didn't get his own way. I really don't think his parents knew how to handle him. His mother always seems to have given in and let him have whatever he demanded (but wisely stopped short of marrying a rich man just so that he could live a life of luxury!!)
His father seemed equally ill-equipped to handle him and he let the stepmother take charge to be the one to try to discipline him.
I think it's very difficult to try to get to the bottom of the family dynamics especially since we only really have Elliot's side of the story but I do get the impression that he was probably like the boy in "We Need To Talk About Kevin" who had behavioural problems from an early age.
They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
He lived in rented student digs; his mother paid for it but it was rented, and it was also just a room. He also had just the one car, the BMW. The Mercedes was his father's.
Something I found interesting was the interview with the mother of his friend Paul Bloeser (referred to as Philip in the manifesto). She said that Paul/Philip and another friend had been invited by Elliot to spend the "retribution" weekend in Santa Barbara. I found this odd as according to his manifesto, he only ever saw these friends in LA, and he did not mention inviting them in his plans. It'll be interesting to hear more from the people he wrote about as his manifesto is clearly his very one-dimensional view of the world.
Seems like he did all he could to tell the world that he was going to do this and nobody did anything about it
Not really, he talks a lot about trying to make sure no one stops him. The videos went up in the week or so leading up to his intended date, but he then got ill and postponed it. He took the videos down as soon as he realised they were jeopardising his intentions, and the 'manifesto' was only emailed out 15 minutes before he started his attacks.
I'm beginning to wonder if they were scared of him and what he was capable of . His mother sees his youtube videos but doesn't go to see if he's okay, she calls a therapist who asks the police to go check. They reassure the mother and it's left at that. Seriously? As a mother you watch those videos and think oh well I'll leave it at that then? They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
His aunt seems to have known he was in serious difficulties despite only having met him three times, his friends mother knew and reportedly discouraged her son from going to his flat that weekend. My gut instinct is his father/step mother were frightened of him and wanted to protect the younger child from him so kept their distance.
I think you're right from the point where he was older but he talks throughout the manifesto about having to be at his mothers one week, and then fathers the other week and yet his father is not there - he talks about some good times with an exchange student who started taking him out, for drives, walks etc and talked to him - he does not mention any time with his father - his being ignored started long before they could have been scared I think - his dad just seemed to throw cash, nannies, stepmother etc in at the difficult moments - he even gets sent off to Morocco with his stepmother he does not get on with for 8 weeks!! He didn't want to go, his father knew that so much he set an alarm and chased him down the street - he was someone they wanted to get rid of - they ignored more than just warning signs - like you say, the videos were up there long before these killings - he was trying to let people know how F'ed up he was and they were too busy with their own lives
I do not like the comment about 'mental illness' from his father either - since when is Autism and Aspergers a 'mental illness' and not everyone with these conditions hurt others - in fact overall, people with mental health issues are more likely to come to harm, than harm anyone - it's a cop out
Also I'm sure someone has said this already but marc_p88 disappeared a few days before this happened
Angry loner, obsessed with his lack of success with women, insulting women for choosing men he saw as beneath him etc I'm also 99% sure that he said he was half Asian or part Asian
Yes, the guy is an idiot. Everyone knows that the quickest way to install a completely fresh install of World of Warcraft onto a new computer is to just use the latest expansion disc and let the installer patch it from there.
He lived in rented student digs; his mother paid for it but it was rented, and it was also just a room. He also had just the one car, the BMW. The Mercedes was his father's.
Something I found interesting was the interview with the mother of his friend Paul Bloeser (referred to as Philip in the manifesto). She said that Paul/Philip and another friend had been invited by Elliot to spend the "retribution" weekend in Santa Barbara. I found this odd as according to his manifesto, he only ever saw these friends in LA, and he did not mention inviting them in his plans. It'll be interesting to hear more from the people he wrote about as his manifesto is clearly his very one-dimensional view of the world.
Apologies, the article I read said the apartment belonged to the Rodgers. I did wonder if that was the case why he took in flat mates given his hatred of people in general.
I think you're right from the point where he was older but he talks throughout the manifesto about having to be at his mothers one week, and then fathers the other week and yet his father is not there - he talks about some good times with an exchange student who started taking him out, for drives, walks etc and talked to him - he does not mention any time with his father - his being ignored started long before they could have been scared I think - his dad just seemed to throw cash, nannies, stepmother etc in at the difficult moments - he even gets sent off to Morocco with his stepmother he does not get on with for 8 weeks!! He didn't want to go, his father knew that so much he set an alarm and chased him down the street - he was someone they wanted to get rid of - they ignored more than just warning signs - like you say, the videos were up there long before these killings - he was trying to let people know how F'ed up he was and they were too busy with their own lives
I do not like the comment about 'mental illness' from his father either - since when is Autism and Aspergers a 'mental illness' and not everyone with these conditions hurt others - in fact overall, people with mental health issues are more likely to come to harm, than harm anyone - it's a cop out
You should wait until you know more about the father before saying this I think. You could be right, or not. There are children who do not spend enough time with their fathers but don't kill people.
I used to think critically of Lanza's father but apparently he did make a lot of effort to intervene.
Yes autism is in the DSM as a disorder and if Rodger was hearing voices he was probably psychotic.
It is easy to blame the parents without knowing how difficult it is to cope with a child with mental illness.
They cannot be kept in hospitals for long, so parents struggle with what to do ?
The police will not take someone in unless they see them acting insanely, even if 10 minutes ago they were acting insanely.
The mental health laws err on the side of freedom for the patient, not safety of others.
Many think the term Aspergers should still be used.
This is a British website though, so while the new DSM description isn't wrong, you shouldn't "correct" people who use Aspergers as it isn't wrong either.
A few things stick out as you read the manifesto document. Even from an early age, he is absolutely obsessed with hierarchy. He reveres, hates and envies popular guys, and is surprised when they do pleasant things, like invite him to social events. He constantly thinks the worst of people, and is shocked when girls do nice things to him, like give him hugs or ask him to dance.
He goes through periods where he will do anything for attention. He admits that he did weird or unpleasant things just to get people to notice him, claiming "infamy is better than total obscurity".
His mother seems highly attentive to him, but the relationship he describes is all about how she fulfills his needs. The other women he praises, nannies and grandmothers, are only positive when they know exactly what he wants and are happy to give them to him. He despises his stepmother for attempting to discipline him by making him do chores, punish him or restrict the amount of time he plays his video games. He gives his stepmother no credit for the nice things she does, like arrange birthday parties. His father is absent for much of it.
The most bizarre thing is that he seems incredibly self-aware in many ways. He knows he is teeming with hatred, envy and jealousy. The part he doesn't seem to recognise is how irrational his hatred is. For example, when he discovers that boys he used to be friendly with and play with as a child go on to be successful with women, that fact alone is enough to trigger his antipathy for them. But he reserves special loathing for women. Even when there are boys who pick on him, the girls who are friendly with them are the ones he hates most. This is true, even when those same girls have done nothing to him.
An interesting thing is WoW. I never played up to the high level in that- but if I'm correct equipment was sort of status in games like this.
And Id say WoW may have had an influence of his thinking. And I say that- not to attribute game=bad influence. But knowing WoW and that type of genre strongly, and the tendency of these games- for people to plunge LOTS of hours into them. (Talking 90+ in some cases) That that isolation, and this status fawning thing, then it would have had an influence.
As a former WoW player I really don't agree with teenagers playing it, and that type of games. You rob potential important social development opportunities at that time of life.
From having read the 'manifesto' it seems to me he turned to WoW to fill his time, as an escape from it all, rather than WoW having had an influence on his behaviour, it was his refuge from the world. His behaviour came before his interest in WoW, not after, in other words.
Apologies, the article I read said the apartment belonged to the Rodgers. I did wonder if that was the case why he took in flat mates given his hatred of people in general.
If I recall correctly, his parents and he agreed that he would have flatmates in the hopes that he might develop friendships and a social life. It is obvious from this that there had been a lot of discussion about his inability to integrate amongst the 3 of them (and professionals?). His parents weren't unaware of his issues, although obviously weren't aware of how deeply they ran and the full extent of them. It comes over like they just think they have an intensely shy, socially awkward son on their hands who needs a bit of help coming out of his shell.
Comments
Can cause stuff like paranoid schizophrenia.
Or more if some different meds had been tried - then stopped.
Do we start taking the internet threats of every weirdo more seriously?
Not relevant in this case. He never took medication. He was prescribed Risperidone but refused to take it.
A matriarchal culture that has been flipped and projected and doubled down on.. and yet still called "patriarchy". Ye olde issue of each sociological change taking 20 years to come out - but 3 or 4 of them made at once?
Is it only engineers who understand that if you put too much roll, pitch and yaw at once on a structure you rip it to bits?
So we've had these harmonics increasing generation by generation... and end up with Jeremy kyle.
Or this.
You really don't know enough about his father to say that.
It's common for lawyers (or spokespersons) to make statements on behalf of the family, even when they aren't celebrities. They are probably distraught out of their minds.
They had psychiatric help for him since he was 8.
He was secretive up to the point he released the manifesto.
It's really hard to know which mentally ill person will go off.
I'm beginning to wonder if they were scared of him and what he was capable of . His mother sees his youtube videos but doesn't go to see if he's okay, she calls a therapist who asks the police to go check. They reassure the mother and it's left at that. Seriously? As a mother you watch those videos and think oh well I'll leave it at that then? They bought him a flat, two very expensive cars (he also had an SUV) but couldn't pop round to see if he was okay?
His aunt seems to have known he was in serious difficulties despite only having met him three times, his friends mother knew and reportedly discouraged her son from going to his flat that weekend. My gut instinct is his father/step mother were frightened of him and wanted to protect the younger child from him so kept their distance.
I call that a massive fail given it would have taken 5 minutes at most do to
It didn't have to 'develop'. People on the spectrum can also have mental illnesses.
I don't think that's fair. He lived over 100 miles away from his mother. They knew he was struggling and had done especially since adolescence, they were providing psychology and psychiatry support to him on a regular basis, including in his college town. I think they knew he was distressed but not that he was genuinely murderous. He spent a lot of time at his mothers house, most weekends, but he was clearly quite secretive. I agree he probably became difficult to manage, but I don't think they didn't try.
Quoted from the manifesto -
My misery became harder and harder to bear, and none of my parents understood my plight. My father thought that all was well with me.
How could he be so blind?
He was so caught up in his failing work that he didn’t care about how my life was turning out. I cursed him for it. My father never made any effort to prepare me for facing such a cruel world. He never taught me how to attract girls. He never
warned me that if I didn’t attract girls at an early age, my life would fall into a miserable pit of despair!
Again...How could he be so blind?I asked myself constantly
A small part - have you read it?
Reading between the lines I think he was probably always a "difficult" child who would throw terrible tantrums every time he didn't get his own way. I really don't think his parents knew how to handle him. His mother always seems to have given in and let him have whatever he demanded (but wisely stopped short of marrying a rich man just so that he could live a life of luxury!!)
His father seemed equally ill-equipped to handle him and he let the stepmother take charge to be the one to try to discipline him.
I think it's very difficult to try to get to the bottom of the family dynamics especially since we only really have Elliot's side of the story but I do get the impression that he was probably like the boy in "We Need To Talk About Kevin" who had behavioural problems from an early age.
He lived in rented student digs; his mother paid for it but it was rented, and it was also just a room. He also had just the one car, the BMW. The Mercedes was his father's.
Something I found interesting was the interview with the mother of his friend Paul Bloeser (referred to as Philip in the manifesto). She said that Paul/Philip and another friend had been invited by Elliot to spend the "retribution" weekend in Santa Barbara. I found this odd as according to his manifesto, he only ever saw these friends in LA, and he did not mention inviting them in his plans. It'll be interesting to hear more from the people he wrote about as his manifesto is clearly his very one-dimensional view of the world.
Not really, he talks a lot about trying to make sure no one stops him. The videos went up in the week or so leading up to his intended date, but he then got ill and postponed it. He took the videos down as soon as he realised they were jeopardising his intentions, and the 'manifesto' was only emailed out 15 minutes before he started his attacks.
Well, diagnostically, it is not aspergers (now just called a form of autism) if it meets the criteria for schizophrenia.
If the aspergers came first though, then there can be a diagnosis of schizophrenia.
College age is a common time for people to show symptoms of schizophrenia. It is often devastating for parents as it can happen rather quickly.
He is sounding somewhat like Adam Lanza although we never got to know Lanza's inner thoughts.
I think you're right from the point where he was older but he talks throughout the manifesto about having to be at his mothers one week, and then fathers the other week and yet his father is not there - he talks about some good times with an exchange student who started taking him out, for drives, walks etc and talked to him - he does not mention any time with his father - his being ignored started long before they could have been scared I think - his dad just seemed to throw cash, nannies, stepmother etc in at the difficult moments - he even gets sent off to Morocco with his stepmother he does not get on with for 8 weeks!! He didn't want to go, his father knew that so much he set an alarm and chased him down the street - he was someone they wanted to get rid of - they ignored more than just warning signs - like you say, the videos were up there long before these killings - he was trying to let people know how F'ed up he was and they were too busy with their own lives
I do not like the comment about 'mental illness' from his father either - since when is Autism and Aspergers a 'mental illness' and not everyone with these conditions hurt others - in fact overall, people with mental health issues are more likely to come to harm, than harm anyone - it's a cop out
Angry loner, obsessed with his lack of success with women, insulting women for choosing men he saw as beneath him etc I'm also 99% sure that he said he was half Asian or part Asian
Just saying
I smiled.
Only according to DSM 5, which is American. We use ICD 10 in the UK, so it's still called Asperger's here.
Aspergers and schizophrenia can and often co-exist - one does not rule out the other.
Apologies, the article I read said the apartment belonged to the Rodgers. I did wonder if that was the case why he took in flat mates given his hatred of people in general.
You should wait until you know more about the father before saying this I think. You could be right, or not. There are children who do not spend enough time with their fathers but don't kill people.
I used to think critically of Lanza's father but apparently he did make a lot of effort to intervene.
Yes autism is in the DSM as a disorder and if Rodger was hearing voices he was probably psychotic.
It is easy to blame the parents without knowing how difficult it is to cope with a child with mental illness.
They cannot be kept in hospitals for long, so parents struggle with what to do ?
The police will not take someone in unless they see them acting insanely, even if 10 minutes ago they were acting insanely.
The mental health laws err on the side of freedom for the patient, not safety of others.
We use the DSM and that is where Elliot lived.
Many think the term Aspergers should still be used.
Anyway we don't see that he had childhood schizophrenia.
That's why I say could've developed.
This is a British website though, so while the new DSM description isn't wrong, you shouldn't "correct" people who use Aspergers as it isn't wrong either.
That's the term that the family's lawyer used in the statement, so I would guess that was the diagnosis they were given.
From having read the 'manifesto' it seems to me he turned to WoW to fill his time, as an escape from it all, rather than WoW having had an influence on his behaviour, it was his refuge from the world. His behaviour came before his interest in WoW, not after, in other words.
If I recall correctly, his parents and he agreed that he would have flatmates in the hopes that he might develop friendships and a social life. It is obvious from this that there had been a lot of discussion about his inability to integrate amongst the 3 of them (and professionals?). His parents weren't unaware of his issues, although obviously weren't aware of how deeply they ran and the full extent of them. It comes over like they just think they have an intensely shy, socially awkward son on their hands who needs a bit of help coming out of his shell.