Yeah the tooth fairy and Santa Clause. You and others must live a sheltered life. If you firmly believe that nice guy syndrome exists nice try though ;-)
Yeah, we're all wrong and you're right. FFS.
It's a behaviour pattern that has been observed and is, at the very least informally, recognised. You're making a fool of yourself with this "la la la I don't believe it" angle. Go look it up yourself.
I hope Rodger isn't going to turn into a Raoul Moat-type (anti)hero for losers everywhere. Already I've seen a lot of comments seeming to side with him, possibly from other young sociopathic men who also can't get a legover and empathise with him.
I have Aspergers Syndrome and it is claimed that this person also did. So I had some thoughts which I put on Facebook as a reaction to this story, especially having also experienced so much not fitting in, although I wasn't desperately trying not to be a virgin, I was over 30 before I finally wasn't. I decided to totally ignore youth culture whilst this person instead chose to try and desperately fit into it but they could sense that he wasn't one of them.
Could this outcome be as a consequence of many "NT" or so called "normal" people simply excluding someone who is "different" leading him to build up years of resentment and bitterness, should people be educated to include in friendships and activities people who they would normally exclude, this combined with easy access to guns in the US. If his life had gone on a different course because someone has intervened with some positive influence you can't help feeling it wouldn't have come to this. There is a toxic culture in US and western society in general, that actually defines people who don't manage to get relationships and sex as "losers" which is also culpable in this outcome I do feel. Why was his mind on it so much, at his age mine wasn't, I totally rejected the youth culture which I had no chance in. I feel society's standards in treating people like him who can't manage the social scene as inferior has a lot to answer for, I noticed that this case has strong parallels with the person who was behind the Virgina Tech incident in 2007, who also claimed rejection and social loneliness at college.
That again demands conformism but some people cannot navigate the complex social landscape that it demands.
Hello fellow "Aspie "
It's a real sad state of events isn't it
It's only a few weeks ago that another young Aspergers student stabbed that poor teacher to death , in the classroom . Kinda worrying trend .
Well Risperidone is clearly useless, even though he never took it after researching it on the Internet
From wikipedia:
In autism [Risperidone] does not improve conversational ability or social skills, and does not appear to reduce obsessive behavior in most people with autism.
Risperidone provides no benefit in the treatment of eating disorders or personality disorders.
If there was any drug therapy that may have helped him, I would say MDMA.
Risperidone does help some people with autism.
Wikipedia is not the best resource for researching drug therapy.
An interesting thing is WoW. I never played up to the high level in that- but if I'm correct equipment was sort of status in games like this.
And Id say WoW may have had an influence of his thinking. And I say that- not to attribute game=bad influence. But knowing WoW and that type of genre strongly, and the tendency of these games- for people to plunge LOTS of hours into them. (Talking 90+ in some cases) That that isolation, and this status fawning thing, then it would have had an influence.
As a former WoW player I really don't agree with teenagers playing it, and that type of games. You rob potential important social development opportunities at that time of life.
I hope Rodger isn't going to turn into a Raoul Moat-type (anti)hero for losers everywhere. Already I've seen a lot of comments seeming to side with him, possibly from other young sociopathic men who also can't get a legover and empathise with him.
I think this is already happening, sadly. On this thread alone, there are posters showing empathy, and are justifying his horrific actions. Embittered inadequate men everywhere see this guy as one of their own.
Risperidone does help some people with autism.
Wikipedia is not the best resource for researching drug therapy.
There are different doses for different conditions, too. Better to consult the British National Formulary than Wikipedia for information about medications, wouldn't you think?;)
My friend's son is on the autistic spectrum, he's 17, & is on a tiny dose of risperidone. It enables him to attend college and he does seem to be more socially aware since commencing the treatment.
I have Aspergers Syndrome and it is claimed that this person also did. So I had some thoughts which I put on Facebook as a reaction to this story, especially having also experienced so much not fitting in, although I wasn't desperately trying not to be a virgin, I was over 30 before I finally wasn't. I decided to totally ignore youth culture whilst this person instead chose to try and desperately fit into it but they could sense that he wasn't one of them.
Could this outcome be as a consequence of many "NT" or so called "normal" people simply excluding someone who is "different" leading him to build up years of resentment and bitterness, should people be educated to include in friendships and activities people who they would normally exclude, this combined with easy access to guns in the US. If his life had gone on a different course because someone has intervened with some positive influence you can't help feeling it wouldn't have come to this. There is a toxic culture in US and western society in general, that actually defines people who don't manage to get relationships and sex as "losers" which is also culpable in this outcome I do feel. Why was his mind on it so much, at his age mine wasn't, I totally rejected the youth culture which I had no chance in. I feel society's standards in treating people like him who can't manage the social scene as inferior has a lot to answer for, I noticed that this case has strong parallels with the person who was behind the Virgina Tech incident in 2007, who also claimed rejection and social loneliness at college.
That again demands conformism but some people cannot navigate the complex social landscape that it demands.
The outcome could have been very different had he been fully accepted by people. I think he was too desperate to be accepted by people and this probably resulted in him wanting his revenge by slaughtering his 'enemies'. I have a feeling that he must have been encouraged into this over the top reaction by people online. I do get the impression that he must have thought he was something that he wasn't. I think he was a bit delusional about his appearance from the way he was talking. He went on about how lasses had never approached him and yet he was only 22 years old.
There are different doses for different conditions, too. Better to consult the British National Formulary than Wikipedia for information about medications, wouldn't you think?;)
My friend's son is on the autistic spectrum, he's 17, & is on a tiny dose of risperidone. It enables him to attend college and he does seem to be more socially aware since commencing the treatment.
My daughter is on a similar dose, it's helped her a lot.
Anyone remember the school shootings by Brenda "don't like Mondays" Spencer in the late 70s? She was 16 at the time, had talked about suicide and killing people. A psychiatric evaluation before the shootings recommended that she be admitted to a mental hospital, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas that year, he gave her a semi-automatic rifle and 500 rounds of ammo. Nice.
The only reason I mention this is that it shows that females can do this kind of thing - it's not just a male thing.
Anyone remember the school shootings by Brenda "don't like Mondays" Spencer in the late 70s? She was 16 at the time, had talked about suicide and killing people. A psychiatric evaluation before the shootings recommended that she be admitted to a mental hospital, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas that year, he gave her a semi-automatic rifle and 500 rounds of ammo. Nice.
The only reason I mention this is that it shows that females can do this kind of thing - it's not just a male thing.
Talk about bloody stupid. You go giving someone a rifle that's been diagnosed as being unstably mentally ill. Talk about crap for brains. Some people are just so stupid in life.
Talk about bloody stupid. You go giving someone a rifle that's been diagnosed as being unstably mentally ill. Talk about crap for brains. Some people are just so stupid in life.
Anyone remember the school shootings by Brenda "don't like Mondays" Spencer in the late 70s? She was 16 at the time, had talked about suicide and killing people. A psychiatric evaluation before the shootings recommended that she be admitted to a mental hospital, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas that year, he gave her a semi-automatic rifle and 500 rounds of ammo. Nice.
The only reason I mention this is that it shows that females can do this kind of thing - it's not just a male thing.
There was another case of a female mass shooter in the US,(Jennifer San Marco) again with a history of mental illness.
Interesting that both of the roommates he killed were (east) asian....
His comments about Asian and Black people in that journal, or manifesto as it is being is called are awful too. He sees them as ugly and inferior. Since he is half Asian himself, it is only his white side that redeems him and makes him beautiful he says.
If you remember - upthread, I mentioned Mean Girls. It's actually based on a parenting guide by Ros Wiseman called Queen bees and Wannabes - there's a related book covering boys.
There's also a book called "Socially Curious and Curiously Social".
ALL of these endeavour to help the exclusively rational person (Aspie and ASD brain wiring) to navigate the American school system.
Over here - at least we had an acceptance of eccentricity - from what I understand, this then gave us an out through music, the geek culture of years gone by etc.
Over there - the German elements in the American psyche means there is a very conformist nature - you have to be part of a tribe. Hence the Greek system etc...
Outcasts created the Internet...
Now how ****ed up has teen life got to be that people need THREE books all of which were written after 2000 to help people navigate?
He may have had Aspergers (and there is a lot to suggest that he did) but his "manifesto" suggests Narcissistic PD to me. Doesn't have to be one or the other; a combination of both conditions could explain his thinking and actions.
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
I think he was more socially retarded than that. In his mind he has idealised his early childhood. Once he reaches the age of self-awareness is when he really hits the skids, though. He suddenly feels awkward and shy and is aware of his small stature and slight build. This seems to be the trigger point for the crippling social phobia which engulfs him for the rest of his life.
If just one thing could have been done to help, perhaps addressing his social phobia might have helped, who knows? Maybe they tried that and failed.
Was it social phobia though? In one part he talks about not being happy camping but once he's put in a log cabin with the "cool kids" he's fine. He also talks about three friends he has but as they're not "cool" he doesn't see the benefit of being friends with them so stops calling. At some points he seems to be able to interact fine (when the people are of an accdeptable standard), at other times he is a crashing horror
Interesting that both of the roommates he killed were (east) asian....
Why? They just happened to share a living space with him. They were placed there by the college, he didn't choose to share with them. He didn't get along with them but then he didn't get along with anyone.
What type of mental illness is this ?
`I am not part of the human race. Humanity has rejected me............ I am more than human. I am superior to them all. I am ... Magnificent, glorious, supreme, eminent... Divine! I am the closest thing there is to a living god. Humanity is a disgusting, depraved, and evil species. It is my purpose to punish them all. I will purify the world of everything that is wrong with it. On the Day of Retribution, I will truly be a powerful god, punishing everyone I deem to be impure and depraved.`
It's coming out now that he heard voices, so most likely one of the psychotic disorders.
His aspergers could have developed into schizophrenia?!
This is the planet we've created for ourselves I'm afraid....The 'media' is an outlet to express what the 'people' want and crave - The media tells you that you must look a certain way, have a certain amount of money, be a certain weight, and more....it's a lot of pressure for most people who want to conform in society, and if you can't achieve these things that the media pushes, feelings of worthlessness, insecurity, and depression can kick in.
More recently, with these 'reality' shows, such as T.O.W.I.E, unrealistic and fake perfection is pushed harder than it ever has been in history - young men have watched the nation's females swoon over guys like 'Mark Wright' and other men of a similar type, with the looks, the money, the car, the body etc...Now the young men of today think that this is what it takes to be desirable to women - this is why you'll see guys of 2014 wearing make up, removing their body hair, and spending longer than women to glam up before leaving the house....
As mentioned, the media is 'man made' and they only push what people want....
In 2014, it seems most young women DO want their men to be 'perfect' like they've seen on television - the proof, regardless to what they say, is the type of men they'd say they're attracted to if you asked...
So, I can understand this guys frustration with 'women' in general as many men would admit to feeling the same - what he did though? Totally disgusting. This guy was clearly playing out a 'movie' type of scenario in real life and wanted to leave a legacy, with the message being clear.
Lastly, the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say. If you have a few of these, you can probably do ok - if you have them all, you're a winner.
The man in question probably had poor social skills, and no idea how to approach women or what to say to them - as he had ok looks, celeb connections in the family, money and a nice car, he's the ultimate douchebag for still not being able to find enough courage to actually sell himself in a positive way. If your personality completely sucks, you'll alienate all people around you.
the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say
So females do not have their own money, material things and nice cars? :rolleyes:
The issue is one of human values - he lacked in that area and his values were so linked into popularity and why? Probably because 'Daddy didn't care' IMO - he didn't even say what he thought of his son himself, he had an attorney do it for him - he used nannies, money, stuff, psychiatrists and the 'excuse' of Aspergers to relinquish his own parental responsibility towards his kid - he didn't even have a man to man talk that would have helped him know about sex and healthy relationships - his son was angry and depressed
In the manifesto it is obvious his father does not feature in his life properly and then eventually when he is suicidal and murderous they send the police - the manifesto says if the police had gone in his room they would have found the guns and the plans - why did his parents not turn up, take an interest in the descent of their son into his murder phase? That is what is was, it's not like it came from nowhere!!!!!!!!
Comments
Yeah, we're all wrong and you're right. FFS.
It's a behaviour pattern that has been observed and is, at the very least informally, recognised. You're making a fool of yourself with this "la la la I don't believe it" angle. Go look it up yourself.
Hello fellow "Aspie "
It's a real sad state of events isn't it
It's only a few weeks ago that another young Aspergers student stabbed that poor teacher to death , in the classroom . Kinda worrying trend .
http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums.html
Risperidone does help some people with autism.
Wikipedia is not the best resource for researching drug therapy.
There's two ways of looking at this.
The first would be that "no man is an island".
The second would be hierarchy.
Without hierarchy - every man can be an island.
But to be caste out of humanity - there'd need to be an island of humanity.
It's too great a collection.
And Id say WoW may have had an influence of his thinking. And I say that- not to attribute game=bad influence. But knowing WoW and that type of genre strongly, and the tendency of these games- for people to plunge LOTS of hours into them. (Talking 90+ in some cases) That that isolation, and this status fawning thing, then it would have had an influence.
As a former WoW player I really don't agree with teenagers playing it, and that type of games. You rob potential important social development opportunities at that time of life.
My friend's son is on the autistic spectrum, he's 17, & is on a tiny dose of risperidone. It enables him to attend college and he does seem to be more socially aware since commencing the treatment.
The outcome could have been very different had he been fully accepted by people. I think he was too desperate to be accepted by people and this probably resulted in him wanting his revenge by slaughtering his 'enemies'. I have a feeling that he must have been encouraged into this over the top reaction by people online. I do get the impression that he must have thought he was something that he wasn't. I think he was a bit delusional about his appearance from the way he was talking. He went on about how lasses had never approached him and yet he was only 22 years old.
My daughter is on a similar dose, it's helped her a lot.
The only reason I mention this is that it shows that females can do this kind of thing - it's not just a male thing.
Talk about bloody stupid. You go giving someone a rifle that's been diagnosed as being unstably mentally ill. Talk about crap for brains. Some people are just so stupid in life.
Bizarre, isn't it?
There was another case of a female mass shooter in the US,(Jennifer San Marco) again with a history of mental illness.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php%3ft=161988053%20Like%20My%20Facebook%20Page
CLICK LINK ABOVE TO READ ELLIOT RODGER'S LAST POSTS ON A FORUM BEFORE THEY GET DELETED.
His comments about Asian and Black people in that journal, or manifesto as it is being is called are awful too. He sees them as ugly and inferior. Since he is half Asian himself, it is only his white side that redeems him and makes him beautiful he says.
There's also a book called "Socially Curious and Curiously Social".
ALL of these endeavour to help the exclusively rational person (Aspie and ASD brain wiring) to navigate the American school system.
Over here - at least we had an acceptance of eccentricity - from what I understand, this then gave us an out through music, the geek culture of years gone by etc.
Over there - the German elements in the American psyche means there is a very conformist nature - you have to be part of a tribe. Hence the Greek system etc...
Outcasts created the Internet...
Now how ****ed up has teen life got to be that people need THREE books all of which were written after 2000 to help people navigate?
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20025568
Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:
Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional
Was it social phobia though? In one part he talks about not being happy camping but once he's put in a log cabin with the "cool kids" he's fine. He also talks about three friends he has but as they're not "cool" he doesn't see the benefit of being friends with them so stops calling. At some points he seems to be able to interact fine (when the people are of an accdeptable standard), at other times he is a crashing horror
Why? They just happened to share a living space with him. They were placed there by the college, he didn't choose to share with them. He didn't get along with them but then he didn't get along with anyone.
It's coming out now that he heard voices, so most likely one of the psychotic disorders.
His aspergers could have developed into schizophrenia?!
Where is that coming from?
https://storify.com/NewSecular/elliot-rodger-bodybuilding-com-forum
the guys who get women often have a combination of good looks, high social status, charm, lots of money, nice material things, and the most cliched of them all, a nice car - these ARE the things that lots of women want, regardless to what they might say
So females do not have their own money, material things and nice cars? :rolleyes:
The issue is one of human values - he lacked in that area and his values were so linked into popularity and why? Probably because 'Daddy didn't care' IMO - he didn't even say what he thought of his son himself, he had an attorney do it for him - he used nannies, money, stuff, psychiatrists and the 'excuse' of Aspergers to relinquish his own parental responsibility towards his kid - he didn't even have a man to man talk that would have helped him know about sex and healthy relationships - his son was angry and depressed
In the manifesto it is obvious his father does not feature in his life properly and then eventually when he is suicidal and murderous they send the police - the manifesto says if the police had gone in his room they would have found the guns and the plans - why did his parents not turn up, take an interest in the descent of their son into his murder phase? That is what is was, it's not like it came from nowhere!!!!!!!!