Jobcentres are overly keen to meet their sanctions targets. It is one thing to forget to sign on - and a sanction may be expected. However, a friend of mine was placed on a training course by his Jobcentre. When he explained he would be required to sign on one of the course days, he was told not to worry but attend the course and the Jobcentre would phone him instead. They didn't.
He then found they had sanctioned him for failing to sign on and he would have to make a new claim. I had to sub him for over 2 weeks just so he could eat. He wrote a letter of complaint about his treatment over 2 weeks ago - and has not yet received a reply!
The Job Centre once changed my appointment, then sanctioned me for failing to attend the cancelled one when I turned up for the rearranged one.
Because in truth they're not there to try and help you find a job, or offer you any sympathy because you missed your appointment because you forgot about it.
They're there to find reasons to sanction you/stop your benefits, and you gave them one. It may be harsh but you really have to do everything you can the best you can so they can't find any possible reasons not to pay you your money.
Complete bullshit (as usual).
Jobcentre staff have only one target (kpi) in relation to their performance and that is to get as many people into work as they can. That's why they will try and push people into work that's sometimes not suited to them.
Other than that they have zero reason to sanction anyone except for sanctionable reasons.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
I think you'll find, in the part you snipped from my complete post, that I said much the same to the OP.
Jobcentres differ from one to the next, as do advisors. In my experience, and the experiences of people I know, the advisors do next to nothing to help you into employment. The job searching is up to the claimant, and if you've met an advisor who helps with that then count yourself lucky because I've not.
They hand you the paper for you to sign, and then send you on your way. They check that you're doing what you should be in order to be paid your benefit, and if not... they sanction you.
That's not "bullshit" as you so politely put it, it's the way it is at many jobcentres.
Complete bullshit (as usual).
Jobcentre staff have only one target (kpi) in relation to their performance and that is to get as many people into work as they can. That's why they will try and push people into work that's sometimes not suited to them.
Other than that they have zero reason to sanction anyone except for sanctionable reasons.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
Try coming into the real world of the jobcentre. My advisor on average sees over 70 people in a day I get 5 minutes max if I'm lucky and she isn't running late. I think she has an issue with females as she barely speaks to me although seems ok with the men before me.
My appointment consists of her signing my jobsearch diary, shoving my signing sheet over the desk to sign, getting it back, telling me the next appointment and shoving the confirmation over for that to be signed and showing me on the screen that she has processed the payment and handing me my stuff and a see you in 2 weeks while starting to dig out the next persons stuff. If you have any problems your told its take it up with the work programme its not up to her to deal with it.
So hardly meeting targets to help the maximum amount of people back into work IMO.
I appreciate some people might be lucky but the reality seems to be the majority of advisors simply are not interested you are merely a number in a system and an inconvenience to be gotten rid of any way possible.
Complete bullshit (as usual).
Jobcentre staff have only one target (kpi) in relation to their performance and that is to get as many people into work as they can. That's why they will try and push people into work that's sometimes not suited to them.
Other than that they have zero reason to sanction anyone except for sanctionable reasons.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
You really have no idea what you were talking about.
I was briefly unemployed a couple of years back and in the real world the only thing the job centre staff care about are that all the appropriate box ticking and bureaucratic procedures are carried out.
I'm guessing the recent tightening up of sanctions are more a device by IDS to make the claimant count look better than it actually is rather than any altruistic desire to really help people back into work. After all it does seem to be in a tories pre-disposition to enjoy kicking people when they are down.
As far as a resource for actually finding a job, especially for a skilled person with marketable skills they are as useful a chocolate teapot.
You really have no idea what you were talking about.
I was briefly unemployed a couple of years back and in the real world the only thing the job centre staff care about are that all the appropriate box ticking and bureaucratic procedures are carried out.
I'm guessing the recent tightening up of sanctions are more a device by IDS to make the claimant count look better than it actually is rather than any altruistic desire to really help people back into work. After all it does seem to be in a tories pre-disposition to enjoy kicking people when they are down.
As far as a resource for actually finding a job, especially for a skilled person with marketable skills they are as useful a chocolate teapot.
Obviously the adjudication officers thought they had good reason to sanction money, it isn't the jobcentre's decision to stop money, it is down to adjudication officers. I expect the O had chance to give her reasons, as said previously, forgetting is not good enough reason
I'm sure the Decision Maker thought they applied the sanction correctly but the standard of adjudication by Decision Makers ( they haven't been called Adjudication Officers for a few years) is on the whole, in my experience, pretty poor and so I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the decision is legally correct.
You are correct that simply forgetting to attend won't amount to good cause, however ,the OP has already said that she suffers from psychosis and that caused her to forget her appointment. Now that in itself may not amount to good cause for failure to attend, but is worthy of further investigation and I have already advised the OP what she should do regarding a possible appeal/ application for hardship payments etc.
Out of interest, if someone's in something like St John Ambulance - and they'll be at a duty at the usual sign-on time, are they able to negotiate going in early to sign as I remember doing so back in the 90s when I was out of work - and was on duty at the Radio 1 Roadshows in Exmouth?
Or am I harking back to a time when the Jobcentre WAS there to help people?
Then again - as I went in with in their terms "massive evidence of jobsearch" - consisting of a lever arch file with all my active and awaiting-reply applications, as well as the jobhunt log?
I doubt they would want to accommodate volunteer work. When I was on income support, I had my claim stopped for investigation for declaring a short volunteer placement with a housing lawyer at the CAB.
Another lawyer there managed to get it and the attached claim for HB reinstated quite quickly. But, not in time for me to have enough money to have money for travel etc. To my placement, thereby cutting it short and leaving me too cautious about applying for any more voluntary positions.
Complete bullshit (as usual).
Jobcentre staff have only one target (kpi) in relation to their performance and that is to get as many people into work as they can. That's why they will try and push people into work that's sometimes not suited to them.
Other than that they have zero reason to sanction anyone except for sanctionable reasons.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
I doubt they would want to accommodate volunteer work. When I was on income support, I had my claim stopped for investigation for declaring a short volunteer placement with a housing lawyer at the CAB.
Another lawyer there managed to get it and the attached claim for HB reinstated quite quickly. But, not in time for me to have enough money to have money for travel etc. To my placement, thereby cutting it short and leaving me too cautious about applying for any more voluntary positions.
Didn't the 16-hour rule apply back in those days? Also that I had been keeping up a massive jobsearch meant that I was doing everything in my power to look for work - but also giving back to the community?
I also gave them advance warning of all duties I did - so they were kept aware of everything - and they knew that if it was a choice between an interview or a duty - the interview would win out. To the point that when I went in for CLient Advisor interviews and more declarations of the type "actively seeking work" were needed to be signed, and I asked what they were - they said "Don't worry mate, you're doing everything".
Then again - it was 1993-1996.
Seems mad that *St John Ambulance* or *British Red Cross* wouldn't be viewed as valid voluntary work - and therefore there'd be no hassle about doing some stints with them while claiming JSA - keeps you sane.
Sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind... it's the only way.
Punishment is one thing, stopping people getting bills paid is another - especially as they could get themselves in a real mess if just one or two payments are missed.
If you want 'cruel to be kind' hard punishment, let's get an automatic ban on driving for those caught with a mobile phone - a real bug of mine.
Punishment is one thing, stopping people getting bills paid is another - especially as they could get themselves in a real mess if just one or two payments are missed.
If you want 'cruel to be kind' hard punishment, let's get an automatic ban on driving for those caught with a mobile phone - a real bug of mine.
Mine too, I hate that. It's nearly always the ***** with expensive cars as well. :mad:
Punishment is one thing, stopping people getting bills paid is another - especially as they could get themselves in a real mess if just one or two payments are missed.
If you want 'cruel to be kind' hard punishment, let's get an automatic ban on driving for those caught with a mobile phone - a real bug of mine.
If that is the case then they should make sure they make there appointments.:cool:
They don't give crisis loans out if you have been sanctioned. Go the job centre and get a hardship form, fill it out there and give it them straight back. They don't pay it for the first two weeks though and then it's 60% of your usual amount! It happened to me recently.
Edit... Not everyone is awarded hardship payments, I thought you should be aware of. Good luck
If that is the case then they should make sure they make there appointments.:cool:
Why not ban them for life then from receiving benefits of any kind? Too harsh? Then maybe so is losing a month's money.
In any case, any 'fine' should be proportionate to any losses incurred by the job centre for rescheduling the appointment. And then that fine should be suspended for a first 'offence'. After all it would be unfair for one individual on JSA to directly contribute towards the running costs of an office full of people on salaries and with generous pensions.
What pisses me off about the Job Centre is that its all right for them to keep you waiting whilst they sit there stuffing themselves with sweets and chocolates or gossiping with their colleagues (this actually happened to me when signing on) but god forbid that you are more than a few seconds late! They are just a brunch of jumped up jobsworths who are full of their own importance.
What pisses me off about the Job Centre is that its all right for them to keep you waiting whilst they sit there stuffing themselves with sweets and chocolates or gossiping with their colleagues (this actually happened to me when signing on) but god forbid that you are more than a few seconds late! They are just a brunch of jumped up jobsworths who are full of their own importance.
Happens on a regular basis to me too. One of the times they kept me waiting 20 mins before calling me over ended up missing my train connection back and had to wait around another hour total joke.
Comments
The Job Centre once changed my appointment, then sanctioned me for failing to attend the cancelled one when I turned up for the rearranged one.
Complete bullshit (as usual).
Jobcentre staff have only one target (kpi) in relation to their performance and that is to get as many people into work as they can. That's why they will try and push people into work that's sometimes not suited to them.
Other than that they have zero reason to sanction anyone except for sanctionable reasons.
Crying like a baby because mommy wasn't there to tell you the time and wipe your nose for you is not a genuine reason for missing an appointment.
I think you'll find, in the part you snipped from my complete post, that I said much the same to the OP.
Jobcentres differ from one to the next, as do advisors. In my experience, and the experiences of people I know, the advisors do next to nothing to help you into employment. The job searching is up to the claimant, and if you've met an advisor who helps with that then count yourself lucky because I've not.
They hand you the paper for you to sign, and then send you on your way. They check that you're doing what you should be in order to be paid your benefit, and if not... they sanction you.
That's not "bullshit" as you so politely put it, it's the way it is at many jobcentres.
Try coming into the real world of the jobcentre. My advisor on average sees over 70 people in a day I get 5 minutes max if I'm lucky and she isn't running late. I think she has an issue with females as she barely speaks to me although seems ok with the men before me.
My appointment consists of her signing my jobsearch diary, shoving my signing sheet over the desk to sign, getting it back, telling me the next appointment and shoving the confirmation over for that to be signed and showing me on the screen that she has processed the payment and handing me my stuff and a see you in 2 weeks while starting to dig out the next persons stuff. If you have any problems your told its take it up with the work programme its not up to her to deal with it.
So hardly meeting targets to help the maximum amount of people back into work IMO.
I appreciate some people might be lucky but the reality seems to be the majority of advisors simply are not interested you are merely a number in a system and an inconvenience to be gotten rid of any way possible.
Sometimes you don't have to be cruel at all.
You really have no idea what you were talking about.
I was briefly unemployed a couple of years back and in the real world the only thing the job centre staff care about are that all the appropriate box ticking and bureaucratic procedures are carried out.
I'm guessing the recent tightening up of sanctions are more a device by IDS to make the claimant count look better than it actually is rather than any altruistic desire to really help people back into work. After all it does seem to be in a tories pre-disposition to enjoy kicking people when they are down.
As far as a resource for actually finding a job, especially for a skilled person with marketable skills they are as useful a chocolate teapot.
I think in your case people would probably make an exception.
Edit: yeah right... cba.
I'm sure the Decision Maker thought they applied the sanction correctly but the standard of adjudication by Decision Makers ( they haven't been called Adjudication Officers for a few years) is on the whole, in my experience, pretty poor and so I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the decision is legally correct.
You are correct that simply forgetting to attend won't amount to good cause, however ,the OP has already said that she suffers from psychosis and that caused her to forget her appointment. Now that in itself may not amount to good cause for failure to attend, but is worthy of further investigation and I have already advised the OP what she should do regarding a possible appeal/ application for hardship payments etc.
I doubt they would want to accommodate volunteer work. When I was on income support, I had my claim stopped for investigation for declaring a short volunteer placement with a housing lawyer at the CAB.
Another lawyer there managed to get it and the attached claim for HB reinstated quite quickly. But, not in time for me to have enough money to have money for travel etc. To my placement, thereby cutting it short and leaving me too cautious about applying for any more voluntary positions.
Yes it is sad that people want to be cruel to those they feel have better lives than them.
How rude are you.
I also gave them advance warning of all duties I did - so they were kept aware of everything - and they knew that if it was a choice between an interview or a duty - the interview would win out. To the point that when I went in for CLient Advisor interviews and more declarations of the type "actively seeking work" were needed to be signed, and I asked what they were - they said "Don't worry mate, you're doing everything".
Then again - it was 1993-1996.
Seems mad that *St John Ambulance* or *British Red Cross* wouldn't be viewed as valid voluntary work - and therefore there'd be no hassle about doing some stints with them while claiming JSA - keeps you sane.
Just telling it how it is. Feel free to disagree
Punishment is one thing, stopping people getting bills paid is another - especially as they could get themselves in a real mess if just one or two payments are missed.
If you want 'cruel to be kind' hard punishment, let's get an automatic ban on driving for those caught with a mobile phone - a real bug of mine.
Mine too, I hate that. It's nearly always the ***** with expensive cars as well. :mad:
If that is the case then they should make sure they make there appointments.:cool:
Edit... Not everyone is awarded hardship payments, I thought you should be aware of. Good luck
Why not ban them for life then from receiving benefits of any kind? Too harsh? Then maybe so is losing a month's money.
In any case, any 'fine' should be proportionate to any losses incurred by the job centre for rescheduling the appointment. And then that fine should be suspended for a first 'offence'. After all it would be unfair for one individual on JSA to directly contribute towards the running costs of an office full of people on salaries and with generous pensions.
Would you forget to come to work too?
Happens on a regular basis to me too. One of the times they kept me waiting 20 mins before calling me over ended up missing my train connection back and had to wait around another hour total joke.
People spend too much time bitching, it's no wonder they don't have a job.