1 Timothy 2:9 - women should dress modestly
Deuteronomy 22:5 - Women shouldn't wear mens clothes and vice versa
Generally ignored by catholics and anglicans, but Christians that more closely follow the Bible, like Baptists and Penticostals are more likely to follow this.
There are many occasions when trousers are far more modest than a skirt.
And while I totally agree that "women should dress modestly" is perfectly good advice, even today, 1) there are obviously exceptions, and 2) the word"modestly" can have many different shades of meaning.
And there were, and still are, many countries in which men wear what could be termed a dress. Including in the Middle east at the time the OT was written.
However, I trust that your skirt is of only one material, and that the rest of your clothing is of the same material? Leviticus 19:19.
Many of the rules in Deuteronomy are overruled in the New Testement, but that one isnt. And I mentioned 1 Timothy first as that is more important. It is impossible to dress modestly in trousers if they are at all fitted.
"When a woman has a discharge of blood, which is her regular discharge from her body, she shall be in her impurity for seven days, and whoever touches her shall be unclean until evening." -- Leviticus 15:19-20
Do you take a week off work every month, or if you are touched by anyone, do they take the rest of the day off?
This is getting totally off topic!
There are many occasions when trousers are far more modest than a skirt.
Obviously going bungey jumping in a skirt would not be at all modest, but other than climbing up high, with people directly below you, and activities where a harness is required, I can't think of any.
And while I totally agree that "women should dress modestly" is perfectly good advice, even today, 1) there are obviously exceptions, and 2) the word"modestly" can have many different shades of meaning.
There have been numerous eye-tracking studies that show mens eyes are naturally drawn to a womans crotch area, therefore any clothing that doesn't hide that I would class as immodest. Obviously personal opinion of what is modest and what isn't.
And there were, and still are, many countries in which men wear what could be termed a dress. Including in the Middle east at the time the OT was written.
However, I trust that your skirt is of only one material, and that the rest of your clothing is of the same material? Leviticus 19:19.
The Deuteronomy quote was secondary to the New Testement quote, so in what specifically to wear it is guidance to back up the NT's modesty rule.
The new covenent replaced the civil and ceremonial laws of the old testement, while leaving the moral laws to be followed. But that doesn't mean the old testement "laws" dont still have a place as guidance.
If making an outfit out of natural fibres it is best to not mix natural fibres, but obviously irrellevant advice when it comes to man-made fibres that have been developed to be blended.
I'm not vegan or even veggie but I completely understand where the OP is coming from and it's not an "event" I would want to attend either.
I hope the OP's boss will be understanding. Despite some of the strangely hostile attitudes in this thread a lot of people have a really hard time with animal cruelty of any kind, even if it's just something they personally percieve to be cruel. If people can't respect that, they should at least just let people like the OP and I get on with going our own way.
I take it the skirts must be of the voluminous and shapeless variety if worn for those reasons. Otherwise, I hate to disillusion the lady, but skirts would tend to hold more interest for gents than trousers.
The thing is dogs are animals and they could try and kill the ducks.
Years ago I witnessed a poor duck being killed after the dog jumped in to the water and started chasing the duck.
Poor thing tried to get away but it couldn't sadly.
That sounds like an out of control pet that should have been on a lead, perhaps not obviously but either way not a 'duck-herder'.
In this case the ducks are being carefully (and sklfully) herded, not hunted. There's no suggestion of any threat to the ducks who could simply fly away if that bothered.
I don't think discrimination on grounds of diet is yet unlawful.
It's not just a diet for most vegans. I think the Vegan Society definition sums it up best for me- "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"
Speaking as a vegan I agree with MAW, just bow out , you don't need to kick up a fuss.
Perhaps next year you can help them organise something that can include you.
It's the pragmatist's approach. Nobody loves a preachy vegan I'm afraid, but you have every chance of gaining respect by quietly sticking to your principles.
There have been numerous eye-tracking studies that show mens eyes are naturally drawn to a womans crotch area, therefore any clothing that doesn't hide that I would class as immodest. Obviously personal opinion of what is modest and what isn't.
.
Crotch smotch! It's all about the boobs! No one cares about your bland trouser area when they can have an oggle of your funbags!
It's the pragmatist's approach. Nobody loves a preachy vegan I'm afraid, but you have every chance of gaining respect by quietly sticking to your principles.
Yep, a preachy vegan is just as bad as a peachy meat eater. Best to just makes your excuses and leave it at that.
Yep, a preachy vegan is just as bad as a peachy meat eater. Best to just makes your excuses and leave it at that.
Now you're sounding just like a Sun reporter in a hotel room with a call girl:D I don't think the consumption or otherwise of meat is as embarrassing as that!
There have been numerous eye-tracking studies that show mens eyes are naturally drawn to a womans crotch area, therefore any clothing that doesn't hide that I would class as immodest. Obviously personal opinion of what is modest and what isn't.
Since men don't have x-ray vision I can't see the issue. Nor is the shape of a woman's legs inherently immodest. It's biology. She's just shaped liked that. I just find these views that shame women's bodies as extremely uncomfortable and controlling and no employer should bow to them.
Not to mention that the clothing has changed greatly over the years (men wearing skirts throughout various periods of history - does that make them women's clothing or men's?). And in biblical times men's and women's clothing was almost identical. Both genders essentially wore big dresses and the only difference was the addition of sleeves and decoration. So surely no one should be wearing trousers ever....
Crotch smotch! It's all about the boobs! No one cares about your bland trouser area when they can have an oggle of your funbags!
Crass but pretty much what I expected. Who gives a crap if a bloke is looking at your covered crotch? He's not actually going to see anything. And he's far more likely to be eyeing up boobs or legs (which a skirt would show).
If you aren't happy with it, tell your boss. She can't force you to do it. I would refuse to do duck herding because I have a phobia of dogs.
The few years ago we had a team building day, and one of the activities was blind fold driving, car is limited to really slow and it's dual control, but having been involved in a bad car accident the year before, I refused to get in the car as either the driver or the navigator. Boss wasn't happy and tried to say I had to, but thankfully the rest of my team were willing to take my turn for me, especially as I had the skills to get them through 3 other challenges that day with flying colours.
Boss also tried to enforce a dress code of trousers for the day, but being a Christian I only wear skirts. He tried to argue it, but gave up, when the 2 sikhs in the team said they wouldn't be wearing crash helmets for the quad biking, and if it was fine for them for religious reasons, wearing a skirt for religious reasons had to be fine for me.
I know all sorts of Christians and the only ones who wear skirts at all times are the ones who cover their hair as well.
Are you one of those ladies?
If so what is you denomination please?
Justagirl,
I would disagree with you that duck herding is evil. The ducks and dogs involved in that thing are trained for it. It's basically their life anf they are going through it every day. I don't think the ducks are in any kind of stress throughout the whole thing.
But, I understand you concern that it is part of the whole "growing animals for meat" business and you don't want to get involved. You have every right to stay away from such an activity and any non-parochial boss would be understanding towards you.
So this would be my course of action: I would tell my boss but I would not do it in a "you are evil to herd the ducks" manner. I would also add that I am so sorry to stay out ot the thing and I am afraid to insult collegues by not going to the event and hope the boss will not put a lot of emphasis on your abcense in the event.
good luck
Justagirl,
I would disagree with you that duck herding is evil. The ducks and dogs involved in that thing are trained for it. It's basically their life anf they are going through it every day. I don't think the ducks are in any kind of stress throughout the whole thing.
But, I understand you concern that it is part of the whole "growing animals for meat" business and you don't want to get involved. You have every right to stay away from such an activity and any non-parochial boss would be understanding towards you.
So this would be my course of action: I would tell my boss but I would not do it in a "you are evil to herd the ducks" manner. I would also add that I am so sorry to stay out ot the thing and I am afraid to insult collegues by not going to the event and hope the boss will not put a lot of emphasis on your abcense in the event.
good luck
The dogs may be trained but I wouldnt be so sure about the ducks
I would tell then I didn't want to go and not give a flying toss about what they thought my reasons were.
To me it's no different than not wanting to go to a party because you don't like social gatherings or not wanting to go pain balling because you don't want to run around all day. Or any number of activities you may generally just not want to do.
If you don't want to go. Don't go, it doesn't matter what others think.
I'm veggie. I wouldn't go. I wouldn't care what people thought about me for not going.
I don't think discrimination on grounds of diet is yet unlawful.
It can be.
Most vegans are vegan for Animal Rights reasons which is a political opinion.
It is illegal to discriminate against or treat someone differently due to their political viewpoint.
So I believe it would be protected under political opinion.
Although I wasn't saying the OP should scream discrimination.
I think she should just say she thinks it's cruel and leave it at that and try and maintain good working relations.
It's only if like carlos said her boss had tried to force her to do something she wasn't comfortable with she could get out off on against her political beliefs like you can get off with doing if against religious beliefs etc.
You mention they were being farmed, and that they are not wild ducks, so if they weren't being used as entertainment they wouldn't have been farmed. At least they are having a fun life and not living in squalor in a battery farm and being fed up for Christmas
They have been bred to entertain us by participating in this activity so if they didn't have that job they wouldn't have been born.
However despite having this opinion I don't eat duck but would play with them and the dogs. Also this must be licensed and would have been checked by RSPCA by now
Comments
I don't think discrimination on grounds of diet is yet unlawful.
There are many occasions when trousers are far more modest than a skirt.
And while I totally agree that "women should dress modestly" is perfectly good advice, even today, 1) there are obviously exceptions, and 2) the word"modestly" can have many different shades of meaning.
And there were, and still are, many countries in which men wear what could be termed a dress. Including in the Middle east at the time the OT was written.
However, I trust that your skirt is of only one material, and that the rest of your clothing is of the same material? Leviticus 19:19.
This is getting totally off topic!
Obviously going bungey jumping in a skirt would not be at all modest, but other than climbing up high, with people directly below you, and activities where a harness is required, I can't think of any.
There have been numerous eye-tracking studies that show mens eyes are naturally drawn to a womans crotch area, therefore any clothing that doesn't hide that I would class as immodest. Obviously personal opinion of what is modest and what isn't.
The Deuteronomy quote was secondary to the New Testement quote, so in what specifically to wear it is guidance to back up the NT's modesty rule.
The new covenent replaced the civil and ceremonial laws of the old testement, while leaving the moral laws to be followed. But that doesn't mean the old testement "laws" dont still have a place as guidance.
If making an outfit out of natural fibres it is best to not mix natural fibres, but obviously irrellevant advice when it comes to man-made fibres that have been developed to be blended.
I hope the OP's boss will be understanding. Despite some of the strangely hostile attitudes in this thread a lot of people have a really hard time with animal cruelty of any kind, even if it's just something they personally percieve to be cruel. If people can't respect that, they should at least just let people like the OP and I get on with going our own way.
Is this an off topic contest?
That sounds like an out of control pet that should have been on a lead, perhaps not obviously but either way not a 'duck-herder'.
In this case the ducks are being carefully (and sklfully) herded, not hunted. There's no suggestion of any threat to the ducks who could simply fly away if that bothered.
It's not just a diet for most vegans. I think the Vegan Society definition sums it up best for me- "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose"
Plus discrimination on the grounds of being vegan is unlawful now apparently http://www.theivra.com/know-your-vegan-rights-cont.html
Perhaps next year you can help them organise something that can include you.
It's the pragmatist's approach. Nobody loves a preachy vegan I'm afraid, but you have every chance of gaining respect by quietly sticking to your principles.
Crotch smotch! It's all about the boobs! No one cares about your bland trouser area when they can have an oggle of your funbags!
Yep, a preachy vegan is just as bad as a peachy meat eater. Best to just makes your excuses and leave it at that.
Now you're sounding just like a Sun reporter in a hotel room with a call girl:D I don't think the consumption or otherwise of meat is as embarrassing as that!
Since men don't have x-ray vision I can't see the issue. Nor is the shape of a woman's legs inherently immodest. It's biology. She's just shaped liked that. I just find these views that shame women's bodies as extremely uncomfortable and controlling and no employer should bow to them.
Not to mention that the clothing has changed greatly over the years (men wearing skirts throughout various periods of history - does that make them women's clothing or men's?). And in biblical times men's and women's clothing was almost identical. Both genders essentially wore big dresses and the only difference was the addition of sleeves and decoration. So surely no one should be wearing trousers ever....
Crass but pretty much what I expected. Who gives a crap if a bloke is looking at your covered crotch? He's not actually going to see anything. And he's far more likely to be eyeing up boobs or legs (which a skirt would show).
I know all sorts of Christians and the only ones who wear skirts at all times are the ones who cover their hair as well.
Are you one of those ladies?
If so what is you denomination please?
I would disagree with you that duck herding is evil. The ducks and dogs involved in that thing are trained for it. It's basically their life anf they are going through it every day. I don't think the ducks are in any kind of stress throughout the whole thing.
But, I understand you concern that it is part of the whole "growing animals for meat" business and you don't want to get involved. You have every right to stay away from such an activity and any non-parochial boss would be understanding towards you.
So this would be my course of action: I would tell my boss but I would not do it in a "you are evil to herd the ducks" manner. I would also add that I am so sorry to stay out ot the thing and I am afraid to insult collegues by not going to the event and hope the boss will not put a lot of emphasis on your abcense in the event.
good luck
The dogs may be trained but I wouldnt be so sure about the ducks
To me it's no different than not wanting to go to a party because you don't like social gatherings or not wanting to go pain balling because you don't want to run around all day. Or any number of activities you may generally just not want to do.
If you don't want to go. Don't go, it doesn't matter what others think.
I'm veggie. I wouldn't go. I wouldn't care what people thought about me for not going.
OP I hope the day went ok and that they let you have the rest of the day off shopping or whatever seeing they weren't working?
They have been bred to entertain us by participating in this activity so if they didn't have that job they wouldn't have been born.
However despite having this opinion I don't eat duck but would play with them and the dogs. Also this must be licensed and would have been checked by RSPCA by now