Assad has to go , and Alawite dominance has to end.
I.. see. So regime change is now legal and the major powers are free to pick & choose who runs their client states. Interesting interpretation of international law.
But suppose Assad does go. Who, or what would replace him? Do we really need/want another Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine...
I.. see. So regime change is now legal and the major powers are free to pick & choose who runs their client states. Interesting interpretation of international law.
But suppose Assad does go. Who, or what would replace him? Do we really need/want another Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine...
Exactly. Sunni rule in Syria will be much worse. Do people really want that?
Exactly. Sunni rule in Syria will be much worse. Do people really want that?
One of my favorite examples is women's rights. So women in newly liberated parts of Syria are stripped of their driving licences and have to dress modestly. Such is the Wahabi way. And order can only be maintained if those pesky liberal countries are gone.
Only Islamists hated the Assad regime before the escalation of the war. The West however with it's allies Saudis and Turks wanted to topple Assad because the Assad's Bath party is secular and that is what Sunni Turkey and Saudi Arabia did not like, so they wanted to topple Assad so they could install a Sunni government that they could influence and to expand Sunni influence in the region and undermine Shia influence and Iran.
Ordinary people in Syria, moderate Muslims did not hate Assad because the government was fighting Islamic extremists and promoting peaceful coexistence of all religions in Syria.
The West then came, strengthen the Islamic groups, armed them, portrayed them as fighters for freedom, and at the same time, they portrayed Assad as a ruthless dictator, and that's where the war started. Assad used force in order to defeat those who he considered terrorists, and the rebels wanted to topple his regime in order to create a Sunni dominant government in Syria.
Now, when we have so many who got killed in the war and the West and Russia keep interfering, it's impossible to seek the end of the war until USA and Russia come to an agreement on how future Syria has to look.
Sadly the US has refused to share any intel on ISIS with Russia until Russia openly distances itself from Assad - which wont happen. Russia will have to solve this problem itself.
In other news, the ruthless and insane rebel leader who was killed recently Zahran Alloush - was an interesting character..his family tells you everything you need to know.. Hussam Ayloush (his cousin), works for the Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR). His other cousin is Captain Islam Allouche and serves as the spokesman of Jaysh al Islam. Islam Alloush announced Jaysh al-Islam's support to Turkey's anti PKK offensive...
Human rights groups said that since protests began seven days ago in the south, 38 people had been killed by government forces
Hardly 'thousands'. And the same thing happened when Libya and Ukraine kicked off. Mysterious gunmen start shooting, crowd goes wild etc etc. And in Syria, where did the Free Syrian Army originate?
Precise details were hard to obtain because the government sealed off the area to reporters and would not let foreign news media into the country.
Yet the news comes out, 'thousands' were killed by the cruel despot..
So Barry O'Bomber announces a 'red line' if CBW were used. And waddya know, gas gets used. Much as it has been by Islamists in Iraq. And there's evidence that CBW precursors were being supplied to the moderate terrorists by Turkey...
If your assertion is that Assad is just a reasonable player and that everything else is just a western conspiracy to frame him, then there's really no point in engaging you in a conversation about it.
I mean, I could go on and on. But if in your mind all of it is either justified or some conspiracy and all you can do is try to point fingers elsewhere, then really this conversation is pointless.
No please, give us some more BBC, Aljazeera, NY Times articles quoting the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights... I mean.. the Sunni ex-convict Rami Abdulrahman from Coventry... Who needs genuine evidence when you have him?
I.. see. So regime change is now legal and the major powers are free to pick & choose who runs their client states. Interesting interpretation of international law.
But suppose Assad does go. Who, or what would replace him? Do we really need/want another Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine...
Assad has to go because most of his people want him dead, not ruling them. The Syrians are perfectly capable of picking a government . They may need someone else to make sure they have a constitution that doesn't allow any group to oppress the others again.
We already have a situation thats much worse than anywhere you mentioned - its why Assad can nver return to power - he started the war, caused most of the damage
Moscow and iran might like their puppet back in charge - because they want their air, naval and missile bases .- but its doubtful if they can have that unless they get rid of Assad pretty quickly, before any hope of a compromise solution vanishes.
No please, give us some more BBC, Aljazeera, NY Times articles quoting the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights... I mean.. the Sunni ex-convict Rami Abdulrahman from Coventry... Who needs genuine evidence when you have him?
A name and organization not mentioned in those articles. But hey, if you can't argue the point, then attack the sources, right?
A name and organization not mentioned in those articles. But hey, if you can't argue the point, then attack the sources, right?
From your Huffington Post article you linked:
Rami Abdul-Rahman, head of the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said cars belonging to the Arab League monitors were seen in front of a municipal building close to the mosque around the same time.
Add to this, two other articles you linked quote unnamed 'human rights groups' which just happen to have exactly the same figures as our Syrian friend in Coventry. For lying so blatantly and getting busted so easily... on the ignore list you go!! ;-) Enabling Sunni extremism should not be tolerated.
Add to this, two other articles you linked quote unnamed 'human rights groups' which just happen to have exactly the same figures as our Syrian friend in Coventry. For lying so blatantly and getting busted so easily... on the ignore list you go!! ;-) Enabling Sunni extremism should not be tolerated.
This, alleged human rights observatory is all over the BBC but the first time i heard of them was an investigation which tracked them down to an address in blighty. A one man operation ran from a terrace in Coventry doesn't strike me as a credible source on Syria.
If you look at Assad supporting sources, of course they claim victory - so did the Iraqi propaganda minISter as US tanks rode into Baghdad.
The reality so far is small gains on the ground - because Assad still lacks infantry - and the Iranians and hizbollah have got fed up of their casualties, and reduced their effort. The successes have been in stopping the key remaining Assad controlled areas falling.
Russian firepower is doing a lot of damage - pretty indicriminately - but without infantry to take and hold territory, the war goes on.
ISIS is not doing so well against the Kurds, or now the Iraqis - who seem to have ISIS forces in Ramadi outnumbered by 16 to 1 , and are nearing recapturing the city - with coalition airpower in support. .
The Iraqi military and Shia haven't one won battle without air support. IS had 300-500 fighters in Ramadi and just like tikrit they are hugely out numbered yet it takes the Shia thousands of men killed and airstrikes after airstrikes for them to take a city, IS took Ramadi in days. 7 months later they still hold it. Why the media report a loss of terrority for IS is some sort of event which leads to them crumbling on all fronts I don't know.
As for Assad and Syria. If the Sunni population supported that tyrant the civil war would wouldn't of lasted 1 year. The idea that the majority of the population support Assad is laughable. The only bombs dropped on the Sunni people come from Assad, Russia and the rest. People don't just forgive seeing there friends and family tortured, maimed and killed from bombs from the sky.
Add to this, two other articles you linked quote unnamed 'human rights groups' which just happen to have exactly the same figures as our Syrian friend in Coventry. For lying so blatantly and getting busted so easily... on the ignore list you go!! ;-) Enabling Sunni extremism should not be tolerated.
Oh no, whatever will I do now that I'm ignored by someone who posts pro-Russian propaganda?
I didn't check that third link, but the other ones don't mention the source you find so odious. Still, of course, you assume that those articles are biased as well because some other article mentions a rights group you dislike.
This, alleged human rights observatory is all over the BBC but the first time i heard of them was an investigation which tracked them down to an address in blighty. A one man operation ran from a terrace in Coventry doesn't strike me as a credible source on Syria.
He was never a credible source, but he was the only one willing to give the '''civilian''' casualty figures to the BBC and CNN that they so badly wanted, so those organisations overlooked the fact that he was making eveything up and that his information was coming directly from Islamacist propagandists - usually Wahhabists living in the countryside around Damascus.
Many outlets are now too embarrassed to mention the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' so just say 'Syrian Human Rights Groups..' lol. The stats are usually identical to those of Mr Rami Abdulrahman..:D
The Iraqi military and Shia haven't one won battle without air support. IS had 300-500 fighters in Ramadi and just like tikrit they are hugely out numbered yet it takes the Shia thousands of men killed and airstrikes after airstrikes for them to take a city, IS took Ramadi in days. 7 months later they still hold it. Why the media report a loss of terrority for IS is some sort of event which leads to them crumbling on all fronts I don't know.
.
But they have air support, and they are winning battles and pushing IS around. I don't think the media have been claiming that IS is crumbling on all fronts, but that the airstrikes have been somewhat effective, especially now that the coalition is targeting the economic assets of IS. Plus likely there's an element of propaganda involved since coalition (and russian, etc.) governments want the bombing to be seen as worthwhile, so they probably push that narrative somewhat.
He was never a credible source, but he was the only one willing to give '''civilian''' casualty figures to the BBC and CNN that they so badly wanted, so those organisations overlooked the fact that he was making eveything up and that his information was coming directly from Islamacist propagandists.
Christians hold Chirstmas parade through the streets of Damascus. The Christmas parade featured Christian marching bands, children and much happiness. They were also celebrating the death of the rebel leader Alloush.
I don't think the media have been claiming that IS is crumbling on all fronts.
They will be soon. The ypg are pushing south west from the north and north east whilst the syrian army is pushing north and making ground to the north west. All it takes is for Kerry to drop this stupid idea of inviting terrorists to the negotiating table and support the ypg and the moderate alliance and it's pretty much game over.
As for Assad and Syria. If the Sunni population supported that tyrant the civil war would wouldn't of lasted 1 year. The idea that the majority of the population support Assad is laughable.
Slight problem with that. You and networkbabe seem under the impression that the majority of Syrians oppose Assad. If so, why is he still there? Why have the Sunnis had to import fighters from Afghanistan, Pakistan, UK, France, Turkey etc etc? Plus all the weapons that have been poured in. Either the majority aren't willing to fight, or there is no majority support for the Sunni fundamentalists.
We already have a situation thats much worse than anywhere you mentioned - its why Assad can nver return to power - he started the war, caused most of the damage
Really? I thought shots were fired into crowds, killing both Syrian government forces and protestors.. Just as happened in Libya, Ukraine.. And those shootings took place where the 'Free Syrian Army' troops decided to carry on shooting..
The Iraqi military and Shia haven't one won battle without air support. IS had 300-500 fighters in Ramadi and just like tikrit they are hugely out numbered yet it takes the Shia thousands of men killed and airstrikes after airstrikes for them to take a city, IS took Ramadi in days. 7 months later they still hold it. Why the media report a loss of terrority for IS is some sort of event which leads to them crumbling on all fronts I don't know.
As for Assad and Syria. If the Sunni population supported that tyrant the civil war would wouldn't of lasted 1 year. The idea that the majority of the population support Assad is laughable. The only bombs dropped on the Sunni people come from Assad, Russia and the rest. People don't just forgive seeing there friends and family tortured, maimed and killed from bombs from the sky.
Do you support ISIS? As a Shia Muslim, having seen the persecution of them over many years, especially in Iraq itself, I find your position a bit difficult to understand. I'm not sure it's easy for either of us to understand theatres of war and why IS are playing by scumbag rules that US and Iraqi armies don't lower themselves to (suicide bombings, IEDs, etc). I think this is a significant event but nowhere near the end - that will be when ISIS are removed from power over the whole of the Middle East. It makes sense to me for your support - assuming you want ISIS to be stopped?
Really? I thought shots were fired into crowds, killing both Syrian government forces and protestors.. Just as happened in Libya, Ukraine.. And those shootings took place where the 'Free Syrian Army' troops decided to carry on shooting..
Dictators have always invented stories of dastardly rebels trying to overthrow their kindly rule, to back up being dictators. Hitler was quite good at it too . He burnt down whole buildings to create a reason to shoot some more.
Comments
I.. see. So regime change is now legal and the major powers are free to pick & choose who runs their client states. Interesting interpretation of international law.
But suppose Assad does go. Who, or what would replace him? Do we really need/want another Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sudan, Somalia, Ukraine...
Exactly. Sunni rule in Syria will be much worse. Do people really want that?
One of my favorite examples is women's rights. So women in newly liberated parts of Syria are stripped of their driving licences and have to dress modestly. Such is the Wahabi way. And order can only be maintained if those pesky liberal countries are gone.
http://carnegieendowment.org/syriaincrisis/?fa=48372
Ordinary people in Syria, moderate Muslims did not hate Assad because the government was fighting Islamic extremists and promoting peaceful coexistence of all religions in Syria.
The West then came, strengthen the Islamic groups, armed them, portrayed them as fighters for freedom, and at the same time, they portrayed Assad as a ruthless dictator, and that's where the war started. Assad used force in order to defeat those who he considered terrorists, and the rebels wanted to topple his regime in order to create a Sunni dominant government in Syria.
Now, when we have so many who got killed in the war and the West and Russia keep interfering, it's impossible to seek the end of the war until USA and Russia come to an agreement on how future Syria has to look.
In other news, the ruthless and insane rebel leader who was killed recently Zahran Alloush - was an interesting character..his family tells you everything you need to know.. Hussam Ayloush (his cousin), works for the Council on American–Islamic Relations (CAIR). His other cousin is Captain Islam Allouche and serves as the spokesman of Jaysh al Islam. Islam Alloush announced Jaysh al-Islam's support to Turkey's anti PKK offensive...
If your assertion is that Assad is just a reasonable player and that everything else is just a western conspiracy to frame him, then there's really no point in engaging you in a conversation about it.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2011/05/2011524182251952727.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/world/middleeast/19syria.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-13988701
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/syria-protesters-killed-b_n_1174292.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/04/05/syria-stop-shooting-protesters
I mean, I could go on and on. But if in your mind all of it is either justified or some conspiracy and all you can do is try to point fingers elsewhere, then really this conversation is pointless.
Assad has to go because most of his people want him dead, not ruling them. The Syrians are perfectly capable of picking a government . They may need someone else to make sure they have a constitution that doesn't allow any group to oppress the others again.
We already have a situation thats much worse than anywhere you mentioned - its why Assad can nver return to power - he started the war, caused most of the damage
Moscow and iran might like their puppet back in charge - because they want their air, naval and missile bases .- but its doubtful if they can have that unless they get rid of Assad pretty quickly, before any hope of a compromise solution vanishes.
No evidence of this..
This however from the Huffington Post is very very hardcore..
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-hughes/pentagon-mutiny-on-syria_b_8879792.html
A name and organization not mentioned in those articles. But hey, if you can't argue the point, then attack the sources, right?
From your Huffington Post article you linked:
Add to this, two other articles you linked quote unnamed 'human rights groups' which just happen to have exactly the same figures as our Syrian friend in Coventry. For lying so blatantly and getting busted so easily... on the ignore list you go!! ;-) Enabling Sunni extremism should not be tolerated.
This, alleged human rights observatory is all over the BBC but the first time i heard of them was an investigation which tracked them down to an address in blighty. A one man operation ran from a terrace in Coventry doesn't strike me as a credible source on Syria.
The Iraqi military and Shia haven't one won battle without air support. IS had 300-500 fighters in Ramadi and just like tikrit they are hugely out numbered yet it takes the Shia thousands of men killed and airstrikes after airstrikes for them to take a city, IS took Ramadi in days. 7 months later they still hold it. Why the media report a loss of terrority for IS is some sort of event which leads to them crumbling on all fronts I don't know.
As for Assad and Syria. If the Sunni population supported that tyrant the civil war would wouldn't of lasted 1 year. The idea that the majority of the population support Assad is laughable. The only bombs dropped on the Sunni people come from Assad, Russia and the rest. People don't just forgive seeing there friends and family tortured, maimed and killed from bombs from the sky.
Oh no, whatever will I do now that I'm ignored by someone who posts pro-Russian propaganda?
I didn't check that third link, but the other ones don't mention the source you find so odious. Still, of course, you assume that those articles are biased as well because some other article mentions a rights group you dislike.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2011/07/syria-mass-arrests-violence-thousands-assad-regime-crackdown-killings-security-forces-protests.html
https://www.hrw.org/news/2011/05/15/syria-targeted-arrests-activists-across-country
He was never a credible source, but he was the only one willing to give the '''civilian''' casualty figures to the BBC and CNN that they so badly wanted, so those organisations overlooked the fact that he was making eveything up and that his information was coming directly from Islamacist propagandists - usually Wahhabists living in the countryside around Damascus.
Many outlets are now too embarrassed to mention the 'Syrian Observatory for Human Rights' so just say 'Syrian Human Rights Groups..' lol. The stats are usually identical to those of Mr Rami Abdulrahman..:D
But they have air support, and they are winning battles and pushing IS around. I don't think the media have been claiming that IS is crumbling on all fronts, but that the airstrikes have been somewhat effective, especially now that the coalition is targeting the economic assets of IS. Plus likely there's an element of propaganda involved since coalition (and russian, etc.) governments want the bombing to be seen as worthwhile, so they probably push that narrative somewhat.
Is HRW also making things up?
They need to make to their mind.
NB. Assad did not start the conflict in Syria.
http://news.yahoo.com/video/christians-celebrate-christmas-parade-damascus-223547753.html
Lovely to see this kind of open and proud religious freedom in a MENA country for a change.
They will be soon. The ypg are pushing south west from the north and north east whilst the syrian army is pushing north and making ground to the north west. All it takes is for Kerry to drop this stupid idea of inviting terrorists to the negotiating table and support the ypg and the moderate alliance and it's pretty much game over.
Slight problem with that. You and networkbabe seem under the impression that the majority of Syrians oppose Assad. If so, why is he still there? Why have the Sunnis had to import fighters from Afghanistan, Pakistan, UK, France, Turkey etc etc? Plus all the weapons that have been poured in. Either the majority aren't willing to fight, or there is no majority support for the Sunni fundamentalists.
Really? I thought shots were fired into crowds, killing both Syrian government forces and protestors.. Just as happened in Libya, Ukraine.. And those shootings took place where the 'Free Syrian Army' troops decided to carry on shooting..
Do you support ISIS? As a Shia Muslim, having seen the persecution of them over many years, especially in Iraq itself, I find your position a bit difficult to understand. I'm not sure it's easy for either of us to understand theatres of war and why IS are playing by scumbag rules that US and Iraqi armies don't lower themselves to (suicide bombings, IEDs, etc). I think this is a significant event but nowhere near the end - that will be when ISIS are removed from power over the whole of the Middle East. It makes sense to me for your support - assuming you want ISIS to be stopped?
Dictators have always invented stories of dastardly rebels trying to overthrow their kindly rule, to back up being dictators. Hitler was quite good at it too . He burnt down whole buildings to create a reason to shoot some more.