Again people are using a discussion about Muslim terrorists to justify discrimination against all British Muslims and now Palestinians. And again equating Palestinian with Hamas. And others are complaining because British Muslims mention that and how it is reflected in the BBCs coverage as a sign that they are radicalised!
I'm not muslim. But the BBCs coverage of Gaza is so one sided it classes as propaganda these days. Showing equivalence between Palestinian and Israeli deaths is as such as doing between iSiS and their victims when they resist. It is simply wrong and a misrepresentation of the situation.
Muslims are much more likely to be aware of that anti-Palestinian stance just as they are more likely to view alternative new sources, so if course they are going to be more wary of other. news coming from the same source. If you know a news source is inaccurate or biased your bound to question it.
"They have seen significant numbers of youngsters motivated to go to Syria either out of anger or because they have bought into the propaganda pouring forth on social media. "
Propaganda on social media? The most propaganda I saw eminating from the syria conflict was from the UK government and BBC. After I saw their biased propaganda against assad I felt like going over myself. After they accepted as the basis of article after article the "syrian observatory" based in a one-bedroom flat in london they might as well have taken testimony directly from mi6 and now that they have pumped propaganda article after propaganda article into the public conscience now they want to pretend it had nothing to do with them.....what a joke
Does that include the 750,000 who had "sympathy" for the London bombers?
Does that include the 100,000 who thought the London bombers were entirely justified?
Does that include the 700,000 who believed muslims didn't even carry out the London bombings at all but the government did instead?
Does that include the one million who agreed that "Western society is decadent and immoral and that Muslims should seek to bring it to an end".
Does that include the 16,000 who believed Western society should be overthrown using violence?
Does that include the 1,600,000 who wouldn't inform the authorities if they believed an imam or other religious person was trying to radicalise young Muslims by preaching hatred against the West?
Does that include the 800,000 who wouldn't inform the police if they were aware of an impending terrorist attack?
Does that include the 210,000 who believe suicide bombings in Britain are acceptable?
Does that include the 2,300,000 who wanted the Danish cartoonist prosecuted?
Does that include the 2,000,000 who think anyone "insulting Islam" should be prosecuted?
Does that include the 570,000 who "respected" Osama Bin Laden?
Does that include the 1,200,000 who want Sharia Law introduced into parts of the country?
This isn't 'moderation' in any shape or form. It only appears that way when thrown into contrast with the extreme Islamic barbarity that we see elsewhere in the world. If these views were held by any other group (e.g. the antagonism towards free press or freedom of speech, the respect for Bin Laden, the desire to overthrow Western culture) then that group would be labelled as 'extremist'. Instead they get called 'moderates'. I would suggest that only a very small percentage of British muslims are genuinely moderate in their beliefs.
A very interesting but frightening post. I am shocked that 1.6 million Muslims wouldn't inform the authorities if they knew an imam was radicalising young Muslims by preaching hatred about the west - it illustrates the scale of the problem we have on our hands. As for the 800,000 who wouldn't inform the police if they knew of an impending terror attack - well, that just beggars belief.
It also suggests that what some posters on this thread try their darndest to have you believe - ie, that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are entirely moderate in their views - is a load of rubbish. No wonder people increasingly see it as "us and them".
But unfortunately if we want to preserve out British values, those of freedom, respect, tolerance, the belief of innocent until proven guilty and the proper rule of law and such like, that is something we will have to deal with at the time.
Deal with it at the time? You mean when another Islamic nutter detonates another bomb on the tube and kills another 50 or 60 innocent people? We need to be dealing with this right now before it's too late. I would like to see a change in the law so that anyone who has gone to fight alongside IS is jailed for life - no ifs, no buts.
Deal with it at the time? You mean when another Islamic nutter detonates another bomb on the tube and kills another 50 or 60 innocent people? We need to be dealing with this right now before it's too late. I would like to see a change in the law so that anyone who has gone to fight alongside IS is jailed for life - no ifs, no buts.
I would go further, and we don't let them back in EVER. Send them back to wherever they have come from, along with those p***** who have been allowed to demonstrate in favour of them.
I would go further, and we don't let them back in EVER. Send them back to wherever they have come from, along with those p***** who have been allowed to demonstrate in favour of them.
I'd sort of agree with that principle, except it goes against current legislation, so the law might need altering.
It's also got two other major weaknesses, a) Some will always be clever enough to fly under the radar and slip through the net, and b) Some totally innocent people will be accused and denied return to the UK.
Incidentally, whatever they say about wanting to stop out there and not come home, trust me, they will. Once they get pissed off with the lousy conditions and when the fighting starts to seriously go against them - as it assuredly will at some stage - they will want to return to the place they currently regard with such sneering contempt.
Incidentally, whatever they say about wanting to stop out there and not come home, trust me, they will. Once they get pissed off with the lousy conditions and when the fighting starts to seriously go against them - as it assuredly will at some stage - they will want to return to the place they currently regard with such sneering contempt.
Absolutely. I read that 250 have already returned to the UK. Thanks to our liberal soft touch justice system, it's only a matter of time before another tube train is blown up.
A very interesting but frightening post. I am shocked that 1.6 million Muslims wouldn't inform the authorities if they knew an imam was radicalising young Muslims by preaching hatred about the west - it illustrates the scale of the problem we have on our hands. As for the 800,000 who wouldn't inform the police if they knew of an impending terror attack - well, that just beggars belief.
Perhaps they should have then been asked whether they think there is any onus on the non-Muslim population to report potential attacks against the Muslim community.
Perhaps they should have then been asked whether they think there is any onus on the non-Muslim population to report potential attacks against the Muslim community.
Well of course there's an onus on everyone to report any suspected attack against anyone I think any right-minded person would agree with that.
Well of course there's an onus on everyone to report any suspected attack against anyone I think any right-minded person would agree with that.
Oh dear, I didn't claim there wasn't any onus. I was simply wondering if someone might say that they wouldn't report a terrorist attack, but would expect everybody else to report one if it threatened them.
I live up North and watched the local news this evening which was interviewing young Muslim lads. It was quite alarming! One or two stated that they would not go but three or more were quite scary in their reply and attitude, they said that it was all a lie, that the BBC was controlled by Israel and mentions of Gaza!
It, to me, seemed clear that they were agreeing with what is going on or at least had another agenda. Very scary.
I hope people are aware of the news from Gaza that about 18 of their own have been executed with the suspicion that they are in cahoots with Israel. I would like to know more about how they determined that these people should be executed considering people are being asked to donate to Gaza.
Well it all seems very convenient to me.
One minute the world is outraged by Israel's atrocities the next minute they are the hero's and the downtrodden.
Netananyu says Hamas is Isis and Isis is Hamas. Complete with perfectly formed photographs of a beheading and then a line up of Hama's killing its own. The eyes of the world have swivveled.
Oh dear, I didn't claim there wasn't any onus. I was simply wondering if someone might say that they wouldn't report a terrorist attack, but would expect everybody else to report one if it threatened them.
Wouldn't that be somewhat hypocritical?
Ah I see, sorry - I read your post wrong. And yes, I agree - it would be very hypocritical!
No, not "means nothing to me". That sounds most unfair. They're irrelevant though.
19 Islamists killed 3000 people in the US in 2001. Those 19 were 0.0007307692307692308% of the US muslim population (although admittedly these weren't homegrown terrorists like the ones we have in Iraq or the ones who blew bombs up in London).
The number of people you need to cause significant deaths in the UK is very, very, very small. They make the 'moderate' majority irrelevant. But it's also why having thousands of 'moderate' British muslims refusing to co-operate with the authorities is so potentially dangerous.
Maybe it doesn't even matter if the British muslims don't co-operate because, as I think maybe Gerry Adams once said, we have to be lucky every time and the terrorists have to be lucky just once.
I think people are utterly deluded in the UK about how radicalised many so-called mainstream muslim youths are already. Not one or two here and there but many thousands.
Well it all seems very convenient to me.
One minute the world is outraged by Israel's atrocities the next minute they are the hero's and the downtrodden.
Netananyu says Hamas is Isis and Isis is Hamas. Complete with perfectly formed photographs of a beheading and then a line up of Hama's killing its own. The eyes of the world have swivveled.
Could you please explain what you mean by this nonsense?
Comments
An analysis of the current efforts on attempts to de-radicalise Brits if they return home:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28885512
What assertions?
Oh I don't know. Is there a thing called the News?
Israelis are not terrorist barbarians.
That's a matter if opinion.
It's a matter of fact.
I'm not muslim. But the BBCs coverage of Gaza is so one sided it classes as propaganda these days. Showing equivalence between Palestinian and Israeli deaths is as such as doing between iSiS and their victims when they resist. It is simply wrong and a misrepresentation of the situation.
Muslims are much more likely to be aware of that anti-Palestinian stance just as they are more likely to view alternative new sources, so if course they are going to be more wary of other. news coming from the same source. If you know a news source is inaccurate or biased your bound to question it.
The BBC is bullshit.
"They have seen significant numbers of youngsters motivated to go to Syria either out of anger or because they have bought into the propaganda pouring forth on social media. "
Propaganda on social media? The most propaganda I saw eminating from the syria conflict was from the UK government and BBC. After I saw their biased propaganda against assad I felt like going over myself. After they accepted as the basis of article after article the "syrian observatory" based in a one-bedroom flat in london they might as well have taken testimony directly from mi6 and now that they have pumped propaganda article after propaganda article into the public conscience now they want to pretend it had nothing to do with them.....what a joke
A very interesting but frightening post. I am shocked that 1.6 million Muslims wouldn't inform the authorities if they knew an imam was radicalising young Muslims by preaching hatred about the west - it illustrates the scale of the problem we have on our hands. As for the 800,000 who wouldn't inform the police if they knew of an impending terror attack - well, that just beggars belief.
It also suggests that what some posters on this thread try their darndest to have you believe - ie, that the overwhelming majority of Muslims are entirely moderate in their views - is a load of rubbish. No wonder people increasingly see it as "us and them".
Deal with it at the time? You mean when another Islamic nutter detonates another bomb on the tube and kills another 50 or 60 innocent people? We need to be dealing with this right now before it's too late. I would like to see a change in the law so that anyone who has gone to fight alongside IS is jailed for life - no ifs, no buts.
I would go further, and we don't let them back in EVER. Send them back to wherever they have come from, along with those p***** who have been allowed to demonstrate in favour of them.
I'd sort of agree with that principle, except it goes against current legislation, so the law might need altering.
It's also got two other major weaknesses, a) Some will always be clever enough to fly under the radar and slip through the net, and b) Some totally innocent people will be accused and denied return to the UK.
Incidentally, whatever they say about wanting to stop out there and not come home, trust me, they will. Once they get pissed off with the lousy conditions and when the fighting starts to seriously go against them - as it assuredly will at some stage - they will want to return to the place they currently regard with such sneering contempt.
Absolutely. I read that 250 have already returned to the UK. Thanks to our liberal soft touch justice system, it's only a matter of time before another tube train is blown up.
Perhaps they should have then been asked whether they think there is any onus on the non-Muslim population to report potential attacks against the Muslim community.
Well of course there's an onus on everyone to report any suspected attack against anyone
Oh dear, I didn't claim there wasn't any onus. I was simply wondering if someone might say that they wouldn't report a terrorist attack, but would expect everybody else to report one if it threatened them.
Wouldn't that be somewhat hypocritical?
Well it all seems very convenient to me.
One minute the world is outraged by Israel's atrocities the next minute they are the hero's and the downtrodden.
Netananyu says Hamas is Isis and Isis is Hamas. Complete with perfectly formed photographs of a beheading and then a line up of Hama's killing its own. The eyes of the world have swivveled.
Ah I see, sorry - I read your post wrong. And yes, I agree - it would be very hypocritical!
I'm liking this New Romantic/80s thing we've got going on in this thread.
I've been meaning to post that Since Yesterday.
I am fully aware of the details in your first post.
You have no idea whatsoever who in the Muslim community is doing what.
Instead it's negative supposition and dismissal based on poll stats.
Hopelessness will solve nothing.
I think you underestimate many FM's awareness.
The last post, from yesterday, is where many of us started out in this debate.
I just wanted to correct what I posted yesterday, not a DJ, but a rapper.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2732393/Is-one-British-extremists-Jihadi-John-Three-potential-Islamic-State-Beatles-emerge-MI5-zeroes-murderer-U-S-journalist-James-Foley.html
Could you please explain what you mean by this nonsense?
Nor does anybody else, apart from some on the inside, and that's precisely where the problem lies.
If it is him his whole family should be deported. Like father like son it seems from that report.