So you are saying, if you set up 1 or more recordings on a channel other than what you are currently watching, the box MUST be on standby, otherwise the recordings will fail.
How stupid is that?
I *have* tested this and you are correct.
However the old dummy recording technique still works, you then get a clash message for watching and trying to record 2 other channels. It will change and make the second recording OK, dummy fails with no signal error.
So you are saying, if you set up 1 or more recordings on a channel other than what you are currently watching, the box MUST be on standby, otherwise the recordings will fail.
How stupid is that?
As I have said before, my old single tuner DTT PVR will just switch it's single tuner over to the scheduled recording channel after displaying a warning for 30 seconds.
I can see a lot of people having problems with this. Quite often my sky box gets turned on by "accident" when someone uses the sky remote to turn the tv on (to watch a DVD for instance) but they failed to press the tv button first, so by accident the sky box turns on. If this happens, your recordings would fail, and you would rightly be peed off.
Another failing of the new EPG? good intentions, but poor implementation.
I think you are right. What they have done in Single Feed Mode is to disable the clash management. This is understandable, as without two tuners there can be no clash of recordings. What they have failed to do is to warn about start of recordings, and to allow what you are watching to take priorty over recordings, so you must watch the channel, or switch to standby.
No doubt this will get fixed.
I have noticed this 'feature' tonight too. I was watching Sky Sports expecting the box to turn over to Sky1 and it didn't.
I also set 2 consecutive recordings on the same channel twice, one manual and one on series link. On both occasions the 2nd recording failed.
Back to dual feed for me, I had hooked up one feed to my Foxsat HDR (which can record 2 channels on same polarity from 1 feed) so under the old EPG set up I was able on occasion to record 3 channels at once.
Now I have the new EPG I do not want to make sure it's on the channel due to be recorded, so back to dual feed for me.
So you are saying, if you set up 1 or more recordings on a channel other than what you are currently watching, the box MUST be on standby, otherwise the recordings will fail.
How stupid is that?
ProDave. If you have only one feed, why would you want to record on a channel different from the one you are watching? The main problem with one feed is that you can't watch one channel while recording another. If you want to record a programme on a different channel surely you just switch over to that channel and hit the record button? Or are you just saying that you no longer get a warning that the programme you chose to record on another channel is about to start?
ProDave. If you have only one feed, why would you want to record on a channel different from the one you are watching?
Because you may have set a recording, forgotten it was about to start and be watching a less important programme. The system should at least tell you the recording is trying to start.
Latest update from my system:
Put it on stand by last night. Switched on this morning. Dummy recording was actually working. Box was still set to the last channel I watched, not the recording and was showing no signal on the screen. I tuned to the channel being recorded and could see it. Changed channel and there was no option to cancel the recording. It switched to the new channel and showed no signal. Had to go into planner and delete dummy recording to be able to use my system.
So basically, if the system is on at start of recording the viewing takes priority and the recording silently fails. But if the recording has started when in standby and you turn on to view, finishing the recording is the priority, and the user just gets no signal error.
Seems I need to leave box on and use dummy recordings to get reliable recordings and proper user experience. (Still in single feed mode)
ProDave. If you have only one feed, why would you want to record on a channel different from the one you are watching? The main problem with one feed is that you can't watch one channel while recording another. If you want to record a programme on a different channel surely you just switch over to that channel and hit the record button? Or are you just saying that you no longer get a warning that the programme you chose to record on another channel is about to start?
I know all the limitations of one feed. In any case I have two, so I'm just discussing it from the point of view of somebody with only 1 feed.
I was not sugesting you CAN watch something different to what's going to be recorded.
The problem (bug) is that if the box is turned ON, and left on a different channel to that scheduled to record, it won't change channel for the recording and the recording will fail. that is a MAJOR bug.
For a recording to work in single feed mode you MUST switch the box to standby, and must also ensure nobody accidently turns it back on, as could happen in the example I gave if someone tried to use the sky remote to turn on the tv, say to watch a dvd, but pressed the wrong buttons.
For a recording to work in single feed mode you MUST switch the box to standby, and must also ensure nobody accidently turns it back on, as could happen in the example I gave if someone tried to use the sky remote to turn on the tv, say to watch a dvd, but pressed the wrong buttons.
that seems at odds with this , I am confuddled now
that seems at odds with this , I am confuddled now
Both are correct. In my statement (second one) I am using dummy recordings as well as leaving the box on. This means the user experience is as it should be, as well as recordings being made reliably, regardless if you are or are not watching the TV. See my full post that you have quoted. It is confusing because it don't work!!!
Both are correct. In my statement (second one) I am using dummy recordings as well as leaving the box on. This means the user experience is as it should be, as well as recordings being made reliably, regardless if you are or are not watching the TV. See my full post that you have quoted. It is confusing because it don't work!!!
Chris
It must be me then
Confuddled still , off to have fish for dinner , see if it helps .
Confuddled still , off to have fish for dinner , see if it helps .
When I mention dummy recordings I have added the following manual recordings:
4:04PM today to 4:03AM tomorrow daily, channel 0101 (radio 1)
4:04AM tomorrow to 4:03PM tomorrow daily channel 0101 (radio 1)
I picked the wierd time on the old system so I am unlikely to be in the old EPG or playing a recording when the change-over occurs to prevent it stealing the working tuner for the dummy recordings. You must also not put the box in standby.
These dummys should always be allocated my second tuner (first is being used for the TV) and always fail with no signal.
By doing this all the real recordings I make are the second recordings, take the first tuner with a feed from the TV viewer, force the box to change the channel showed on the TV. If the viewer wants a different channel the system will make them cancel one of the recordings.
Its the only way to make a single feed system behave like a 2 feed system making 2 recordings.
When I get the new EPG, I'll have a play, but as I have two feeds (well three in the main room) It is of little interest other than to see what happens.
For a recording to work in single feed mode you MUST switch the box to standby, and must also ensure nobody accidently turns it back on, as could happen in the example I gave if someone tried to use the sky remote to turn on the tv, say to watch a dvd, but pressed the wrong buttons.
you say leave it ON ,whilst he says " Standby " that is what is confusing me ?
Which is at adds with what Prodave summed up here ,
you say leave it ON ,whilst he says " Standby " that is what is confusing me ?
But hey its not that hard to do
No we are not at odds:
OLD EPG (or probably new one as well) if setting the box to DUAL feed and using a dummy recording to fool it into working with single feed, you must leave the box ON
NEW EPG set to single feed mode, you MUST turn it to standby or else the recordings will fail.
Scenario 1
If you are watching tele (Ie box is turned on), and then a recording is due to start on a different channel:
- you stay watching your programme and find later that the recording you scheduled failed _without_ you being warned that it was due to record. You swear, throw the gadget and check when it is repeated!
What should happen (and doesn't) is you get a clash message on screen and are asked if you want to:
1)Cancel the recording and stay on your channel.
or 2)Change to the other channel, watch and record other programme that was preset to record.
Option 2 is the default if you don't press anything.
** Note to Sky - please make it do this!! **
OR
Scenario 2
Box is in standby, a recording starts, then you switch the box and tele on to watch something:
- You get a no signal screen if the channel you last viewed is not the channel that is being recorded (highly likely).
- You change channel and get a no signal error
- You then think (cos you ate lots of fish) realise that you need to go into planner, end recording, then can watch the tele.
What should happen (and doesn't):
1) When you turn the box and tele on it shows the programme that is recording on the screen. If you press select the info banner shows that this is recording.
2) If you try to change channel, you will get a warning that if you change the channel the recording will be cancelled. You can decide to say yes or no.
** Hopefully Sky are reading **
==========
The benefit of the dummy recording technique is: What should happen does happen!
1) Recordings don't fail if you are watching something else without it telling you.
2) If someone put the tele on while it is recording you get a helpful messages instead of No Signal errors.
3) Also works if you leave the box on after you have finished watching it.
==========
This is how everyone EXPECTS single feed mode to work. It doesn't.
** When in single feed mode with the new EPG it still regularly allocates recordings to the tuner it knows has not got a signal. **
Tell me that is not a MAJOR flaw as stated by Dave.
Hopefully this is clearer but please say if not!!!
Scenario 1
If you are watching tele (Ie box is turned on), and then a recording is due to start on a different channel:
- you stay watching your programme and find later that the recording you scheduled failed _without_ you being warned that it was due to record. You swear, throw the gadget and check when it is repeated!
What should happen (and doesn't) is you get a clash message on screen and are asked if you want to:
1)Cancel the recording and stay on your channel.
or 2)Change to the other channel, watch and record other programme that was preset to record.
Option 2 is the default if you don't press anything.
** Note to Sky - please make it do this!! **
OR
Scenario 2
Box is in standby, a recording starts, then you switch the box and tele on to watch something:
- You get a no signal screen if the channel you last viewed is not the channel that is being recorded (highly likely).
- You change channel and get a no signal error
- You then think (cos you ate lots of fish) realise that you need to go into planner, end recording, then can watch the tele.
What should happen (and doesn't):
1) When you turn the box and tele on it shows the programme that is recording on the screen. If you press select the info banner shows that this is recording.
2) If you try to change channel, you will get a warning that if you change the channel the recording will be cancelled. You can decide to say yes or no.
** Hopefully Sky are reading **
==========
The benefit of the dummy recording technique is: What should happen does happen!
1) Recordings don't fail if you are watching something else without it telling you.
2) If someone put the tele on while it is recording you get a helpful messages instead of No Signal errors.
3) Also works if you leave the box on after you have finished watching it.
==========
This is how everyone EXPECTS single feed mode to work. It doesn't.
** When in single feed mode with the new EPG it still regularly allocates recordings to the tuner it knows has not got a signal. **
Tell me that is not a MAJOR flaw as stated by Dave.
Hopefully this is clearer but please say if not!!!
Sky if you need a programmer to fix this PM me!!!
Regards,
Chris
fantastic explaination mate and agree absolutely with your suggestions
Please please sky sort this
I think we will be waiting a long time though for this to be sorted if ever as im sure they think they have solved it for us single feeders and we must be a small proportion of users
As my troubleshooting continues, I have a new problem to report with single feed mode.
The flyer in the new EPG mailing said that single feed mode would allow me to 'continue watching TV and receive complete programme listings.'
When I go into the programme guide this morning, I only have listings for the next 12-24 hours. If I wish to set a recording 24 hours or more in advance it is not possible. TV guide just shows no listings available, and makes no attempt to go and get them.
Tried calling Sky and just got told to pull the power out - I said no because the first thing the box does when you plug in is download the listings. I would then have complete listings and would have to call them again a week later with the same problem.
When I go into the programme guide this morning, I only have listings for the next 12-24 hours. If I wish to set a recording 24 hours or more in advance it is not possible. TV guide just shows no listings available, and makes no attempt to go and get them.
Do you put your box in standby overnight (or have auto standby turned on) ?
As my troubleshooting continues, I have a new problem to report with single feed mode.
The flyer in the new EPG mailing said that single feed mode would allow me to 'continue watching TV and receive complete programme listings.'
When I go into the programme guide this morning, I only have listings for the next 12-24 hours. If I wish to set a recording 24 hours or more in advance it is not possible. TV guide just shows no listings available, and makes no attempt to go and get them.
I was emailed a document about the new EPG this morning that answers this issue.
Becaue mini tv continues watching the current tv channel while in the guide (and still even plays the sound when mini tv is turned off) the guide will only have limited EPG data available from that transponder.
A normal box with 2 feeds, will simply use the other tuner for the EPG data, so this is not an issue.
A "single feed" box will aparantly cache full EPG data WHEN THE BOX IS IN STANDBY. If the data is cached, it will be available.
So when using a box in single feed mode, it is important to put it into standby whenever it's not in use, to give it chance to collect and store the EPG data.
If you never put the box in standby, it will only have limited EPG data available.
No, and nor should I have to! With the old system (pre Sky+) if there were no listings it would go and get them. I'd be happy with that!!
Chris
I take your point, but I think that ProDave has answered it - you will now need to put your box in standby when you are not watching TV to let it download the EPG data.
Comments
I *have* tested this and you are correct.
However the old dummy recording technique still works, you then get a clash message for watching and trying to record 2 other channels. It will change and make the second recording OK, dummy fails with no signal error.
Chris
Number 1 only.
I think you are right. What they have done in Single Feed Mode is to disable the clash management. This is understandable, as without two tuners there can be no clash of recordings. What they have failed to do is to warn about start of recordings, and to allow what you are watching to take priorty over recordings, so you must watch the channel, or switch to standby.
No doubt this will get fixed.
I also set 2 consecutive recordings on the same channel twice, one manual and one on series link. On both occasions the 2nd recording failed.
Back to dual feed for me, I had hooked up one feed to my Foxsat HDR (which can record 2 channels on same polarity from 1 feed) so under the old EPG set up I was able on occasion to record 3 channels at once.
Now I have the new EPG I do not want to make sure it's on the channel due to be recorded, so back to dual feed for me.
ProDave. If you have only one feed, why would you want to record on a channel different from the one you are watching? The main problem with one feed is that you can't watch one channel while recording another. If you want to record a programme on a different channel surely you just switch over to that channel and hit the record button? Or are you just saying that you no longer get a warning that the programme you chose to record on another channel is about to start?
Because you may have set a recording, forgotten it was about to start and be watching a less important programme. The system should at least tell you the recording is trying to start.
Latest update from my system:
Put it on stand by last night. Switched on this morning. Dummy recording was actually working. Box was still set to the last channel I watched, not the recording and was showing no signal on the screen. I tuned to the channel being recorded and could see it. Changed channel and there was no option to cancel the recording. It switched to the new channel and showed no signal. Had to go into planner and delete dummy recording to be able to use my system.
So basically, if the system is on at start of recording the viewing takes priority and the recording silently fails. But if the recording has started when in standby and you turn on to view, finishing the recording is the priority, and the user just gets no signal error.
Seems I need to leave box on and use dummy recordings to get reliable recordings and proper user experience. (Still in single feed mode)
Chris
I know all the limitations of one feed. In any case I have two, so I'm just discussing it from the point of view of somebody with only 1 feed.
I was not sugesting you CAN watch something different to what's going to be recorded.
The problem (bug) is that if the box is turned ON, and left on a different channel to that scheduled to record, it won't change channel for the recording and the recording will fail. that is a MAJOR bug.
For a recording to work in single feed mode you MUST switch the box to standby, and must also ensure nobody accidently turns it back on, as could happen in the example I gave if someone tried to use the sky remote to turn on the tv, say to watch a dvd, but pressed the wrong buttons.
that seems at odds with this , I am confuddled now
I have 2 feeds and the old EPG but just trying to get my head around the single feed option .
Both are correct. In my statement (second one) I am using dummy recordings as well as leaving the box on. This means the user experience is as it should be, as well as recordings being made reliably, regardless if you are or are not watching the TV. See my full post that you have quoted. It is confusing because it don't work!!!
Chris
It must be me then
Confuddled still , off to have fish for dinner , see if it helps .
When I mention dummy recordings I have added the following manual recordings:
4:04PM today to 4:03AM tomorrow daily, channel 0101 (radio 1)
4:04AM tomorrow to 4:03PM tomorrow daily channel 0101 (radio 1)
I picked the wierd time on the old system so I am unlikely to be in the old EPG or playing a recording when the change-over occurs to prevent it stealing the working tuner for the dummy recordings. You must also not put the box in standby.
These dummys should always be allocated my second tuner (first is being used for the TV) and always fail with no signal.
By doing this all the real recordings I make are the second recordings, take the first tuner with a feed from the TV viewer, force the box to change the channel showed on the TV. If the viewer wants a different channel the system will make them cancel one of the recordings.
Its the only way to make a single feed system behave like a 2 feed system making 2 recordings.
Chris
Which is at adds with what Prodave summed up here ,
you say leave it ON ,whilst he says " Standby " that is what is confusing me ?
But hey its not that hard to do
No we are not at odds:
OLD EPG (or probably new one as well) if setting the box to DUAL feed and using a dummy recording to fool it into working with single feed, you must leave the box ON
NEW EPG set to single feed mode, you MUST turn it to standby or else the recordings will fail.
CopperMan,
You will need fish for tea as well, I do wish to answer you!
You can do either as I or Dave say - I will detail the pros and cons of each ON NEW EPG with SINGLE FEED MODE ON:
===========
Prodave's (and Sky's) method (single feed mode & no dummy recordings)
Scenario 1
If you are watching tele (Ie box is turned on), and then a recording is due to start on a different channel:
- you stay watching your programme and find later that the recording you scheduled failed _without_ you being warned that it was due to record. You swear, throw the gadget and check when it is repeated!
What should happen (and doesn't) is you get a clash message on screen and are asked if you want to:
1)Cancel the recording and stay on your channel.
or 2)Change to the other channel, watch and record other programme that was preset to record.
Option 2 is the default if you don't press anything.
** Note to Sky - please make it do this!! **
OR
Scenario 2
Box is in standby, a recording starts, then you switch the box and tele on to watch something:
- You get a no signal screen if the channel you last viewed is not the channel that is being recorded (highly likely).
- You change channel and get a no signal error
- You then think (cos you ate lots of fish) realise that you need to go into planner, end recording, then can watch the tele.
What should happen (and doesn't):
1) When you turn the box and tele on it shows the programme that is recording on the screen. If you press select the info banner shows that this is recording.
2) If you try to change channel, you will get a warning that if you change the channel the recording will be cancelled. You can decide to say yes or no.
** Hopefully Sky are reading **
==========
The benefit of the dummy recording technique is: What should happen does happen!
1) Recordings don't fail if you are watching something else without it telling you.
2) If someone put the tele on while it is recording you get a helpful messages instead of No Signal errors.
3) Also works if you leave the box on after you have finished watching it.
==========
This is how everyone EXPECTS single feed mode to work. It doesn't.
** When in single feed mode with the new EPG it still regularly allocates recordings to the tuner it knows has not got a signal. **
Tell me that is not a MAJOR flaw as stated by Dave.
Hopefully this is clearer but please say if not!!!
Sky if you need a programmer to fix this PM me!!!
Regards,
Chris
Or a shorter answer...
"You must set a dummy recording and leave box on"
or
"You must switch box off"
Chris
fantastic explaination mate and agree absolutely with your suggestions
Please please sky sort this
I think we will be waiting a long time though for this to be sorted if ever
The box was in standby too.
if so are you still having anytime downloads overnight ?
I have anytime turned off.
The flyer in the new EPG mailing said that single feed mode would allow me to 'continue watching TV and receive complete programme listings.'
When I go into the programme guide this morning, I only have listings for the next 12-24 hours. If I wish to set a recording 24 hours or more in advance it is not possible. TV guide just shows no listings available, and makes no attempt to go and get them.
Tried calling Sky and just got told to pull the power out - I said no because the first thing the box does when you plug in is download the listings. I would then have complete listings and would have to call them again a week later with the same problem.
Chris
Do you put your box in standby overnight (or have auto standby turned on) ?
I was emailed a document about the new EPG this morning that answers this issue.
Becaue mini tv continues watching the current tv channel while in the guide (and still even plays the sound when mini tv is turned off) the guide will only have limited EPG data available from that transponder.
A normal box with 2 feeds, will simply use the other tuner for the EPG data, so this is not an issue.
A "single feed" box will aparantly cache full EPG data WHEN THE BOX IS IN STANDBY. If the data is cached, it will be available.
So when using a box in single feed mode, it is important to put it into standby whenever it's not in use, to give it chance to collect and store the EPG data.
If you never put the box in standby, it will only have limited EPG data available.
No, and nor should I have to! With the old system (pre Sky+) if there were no listings it would go and get them. I'd be happy with that!!
Chris
I take your point, but I think that ProDave has answered it - you will now need to put your box in standby when you are not watching TV to let it download the EPG data.