That's the child in us though, isn;t it? Wanting to believe things are so amazing they must have been 'made'..? When in fact, we know from empirical evidence things evolve, and mutate, and change and all the beautiful and amazing 'miracles' like the structure of a snowflake, or how your senses work, or... penguins... those things can just 'be' without having been 'created'? We don;t need a 'father' to make things happen for us, or make things un-happen. Not once we grow up. (And I don;t mean that in a perjorative way - just an observation about the nature of humanity in general, not the poster I'm quoting).
These things in nature - are no less miraculous. Maybe moreso. Dawkins makes this point over and over.
If you really want to get a feel for the age of the Earth and learn about evolution there are plenty of books to explain how those things you mention came about. Just saying god did it isn't an answer at all.
How do you find it difficult to believe that these things could not have come about without a designer when you can believe that something complex enough to design them did come about without being designed?
But then your back to the same thing. If God exists and is such an amazing being - where did God come from? Someone must have designed God, presuming everything needs an architect. If you can believe that God just 'always existed' why not believe that the possibility of everything in nature 'always existed.
I can't answer any of your questions because I just don't know. Nature, whatever nature is, designed something that even our 21st Century scientists cannot when it comes to the spinner, how can this just "happen?". I'm one of the simple souls who lie awake at night pondering nature and how something that we cannot see can have such knowledge and engineering to create the thing known as sight or a that a creature can change its colour to match its surroundings, what is nature? Is nature God? Do we mistake nature for God? Nature is just as intangible but, at least, we know that nature exists ... doesn't it?
I have no answers, no one has the answers and that's the problem, not one of us will ever know the truth and that's such a big regret it my life, I seek the truth.
"how many atheists actually have an iron clad, unwavering conviction and total non-belief in God"
I never do get things like this. Why do we have to have something, anything? Why must we possess this or that to justify our position?
We don't need any conviction. Why is it always seen that we have to have some major thing to justify our unholy choice.
It really is much simpler: We don't require anything. Not a single thing. It's called normality. It up to the people making any claims of anything else to provide evidence of their claim.
So we require no belief in the non-existence of a God or a conviction or anything else that seems to just be trying to put us on the same level as a believer and what believers constantly do.
Try substituting "A blue unicorn" for God and see how we truly see it. This utter rubbish that God is something quite different to thinking that blue unicorns exist has been backed up as much as the existence of this God thing has.
So, do you have a really really really watertight strong conviction in your belief that blue unicorns don't exist? - Yes and the God question is exactly the same question.
I can't answer any of your questions because I just don't know. Nature, whatever nature is, designed something that even our 21st Century scientists cannot when it comes to the spinner, how can this just "happen?". I'm one of the simple souls who lie awake at night pondering nature and how something that we cannot see can have such knowledge and engineering to create the thing known as sight or a that a creature can change its colour to match its surroundings, what is nature? Is nature God? Do we mistake nature for God? Nature is just as intangible but, at least, we know that nature exists ... doesn't it?
I have no answers, no one has the answers and that's the problem, not one of us will ever know the truth and that's such a big regret it my life, I seek the truth.
i don't believe in god because i think if he did exist, everyone would know about it. the fact that everything can be explained another way (like the big bang theory) shows, to me, that there is no god, because if there was one he would be the only explanation. god would be unavoidable
I think a couple of years spent studying anthropology and/or myths from all round the world - teaches you that belief systems are manmade constructs. People have sun gods or earth goddesses or supernatural beings who once (conveniently not in living memory) did miracles but now don't.... but within those belief systems are rules. Applying the rules of a primitive, desert-dwelling culture to 21stC Britain is clearly (how to be polite?)...erroneous.
Once you start to see it from a detached, analytical perspective (via science, anthropology, sociology, myths as literature, whatever....) you can ask the 'right' questions.
Bit paradoxical this. If it's intended as irony it sounds to me like it falls a little flat.
As to why I'm an atheist: Sunday school used to scare me as a child with tales of eternal hellfire if I didn't do exactly what God wanted.
One day I stayed in the park for two hours instead of going in and I wasn't struck dead by lightning.
Years later I revealed the truth of my epiphany to my father who revealed he had a similar Damascene conversion when as an RAF airman he was ordered to attend a mass blessing of ordnance and bombs by the forces chaplain.
Because the stories are so far fetched and are so not true, how can you believe in that. Do you really believe god man adam and eve? or was that only made up because at the time there was no science avalible and they didnt know what the truth was?
Because I'm not brain washed and because since man gained intelligence no one has ever produced one bit of hard eveidence that god/jesus/ghosts/ghoulies/spirits/angels/things that go bump in the night/poltergeists etc etc have ever existed.
I rest me case m'lud
I'm curious to know how many atheists actually have an iron clad, unwavering conviction and total non-belief in God.
Me. Except that it seems like a bit of an oxymoron to have an iron-clad non-belief in something.
Where you might be going wrong is in the concept of 'non-belief'. It isn't us who don't believe. It's other people that do believe. It's a tricky concept for me to explain but if you have two people sitting quietly and one of them sneezes - do concentrate on asking the other person why they didn't?
To me 'non-belief' is like describing that situation as:Two people sitting in a room. One of them didn't sneeze.
Edit:Actually the bit about blue-unicorns may be better phrased
Was dragged to church by Grandparents when I was young, but thought it was a great place to hear stories and to cut out and make things. The whole religion thing seemed, and still seems, to be some kind of mass brainwashing and no better/worse than any other cult.
No more believe in God than I do in any other character I've read about in a book.
I'm here, I'm a monkeys great,great,great (etc) grandson, and whatever happens happens.
End of!
Comments
That God punishes us?
I don't want to be part of something like that
I can't answer any of your questions because I just don't know. Nature, whatever nature is, designed something that even our 21st Century scientists cannot when it comes to the spinner, how can this just "happen?". I'm one of the simple souls who lie awake at night pondering nature and how something that we cannot see can have such knowledge and engineering to create the thing known as sight or a that a creature can change its colour to match its surroundings, what is nature? Is nature God? Do we mistake nature for God? Nature is just as intangible but, at least, we know that nature exists ... doesn't it?
I have no answers, no one has the answers and that's the problem, not one of us will ever know the truth and that's such a big regret it my life, I seek the truth.
I never do get things like this. Why do we have to have something, anything? Why must we possess this or that to justify our position?
We don't need any conviction. Why is it always seen that we have to have some major thing to justify our unholy choice.
It really is much simpler: We don't require anything. Not a single thing. It's called normality. It up to the people making any claims of anything else to provide evidence of their claim.
So we require no belief in the non-existence of a God or a conviction or anything else that seems to just be trying to put us on the same level as a believer and what believers constantly do.
Try substituting "A blue unicorn" for God and see how we truly see it. This utter rubbish that God is something quite different to thinking that blue unicorns exist has been backed up as much as the existence of this God thing has.
So, do you have a really really really watertight strong conviction in your belief that blue unicorns don't exist? - Yes and the God question is exactly the same question.
You are asking the wrong questions!!
Once you start to see it from a detached, analytical perspective (via science, anthropology, sociology, myths as literature, whatever....) you can ask the 'right' questions.
As to why I'm an atheist: Sunday school used to scare me as a child with tales of eternal hellfire if I didn't do exactly what God wanted.
One day I stayed in the park for two hours instead of going in and I wasn't struck dead by lightning.
Years later I revealed the truth of my epiphany to my father who revealed he had a similar Damascene conversion when as an RAF airman he was ordered to attend a mass blessing of ordnance and bombs by the forces chaplain.
Isn't that self contradiction? How can you hate something that you believe doesn't exist?
I might be wrong but I think adopter was joking
Sorry, humour by-pass set in.
I was indeed.
But I have seen on DS and other places theists blame atheists' hate of god for their lack of belief!!
Sorry about that.
I rest me case m'lud
Yes, I've been asked why I hate God which always seems an odd question. If I thought there was a god to hate I'd be a theist.
Where you might be going wrong is in the concept of 'non-belief'. It isn't us who don't believe. It's other people that do believe. It's a tricky concept for me to explain but if you have two people sitting quietly and one of them sneezes - do concentrate on asking the other person why they didn't?
To me 'non-belief' is like describing that situation as:Two people sitting in a room. One of them didn't sneeze.
Edit:Actually the bit about blue-unicorns may be better phrased
No more believe in God than I do in any other character I've read about in a book.
I'm here, I'm a monkeys great,great,great (etc) grandson, and whatever happens happens.
End of!
You can't hate something that you don't believe exists.
I am an atheist because I am certain there IS no god.
You missed my first post in this thread.
We're coming up to christmas; can't we just enjoy ourselves and forget about religion for a bit?
I just skimmed through.:o
That'll teach yer to make jokes about such a serious matter !
Lol, for so many reasons!