Esther said she heard rumours - the very fact that TOTP was investigated twice could all have been part of the rumour. She quite clearly had no hard evidence - even the Police couldn't convict.
I'm not a big ER fan but she has done sterling work on the child protection front. It was Esther who bought the subject of Child Sexual Abuse into the open ........we watched open mouthed on the BBC - it had never been discussed.
Lots of people heard rumours - I heard rumours - it's not the same as evidence or proof.
Shame on the people who are painting ER in a bad light over this.
I agree. I think Esther's been given a bad rap. Childline IS her life's work and she made a huge difference by raising awareness. She was one of hundreds it seems to me, who heard "rumours" and chose not to pursue it. Why single her out when she knew the machinations of the BBC well.
People may dislike her personally and think she full of self importamnce etc, but she's done more for abused kids than most.
I hope to god that her charity doesn't suffer because of this. We need Childline.
Esther Rantzen came out quite well in that interview. She pointed out that Shy Keenan is herself an abuse campaigner but she didn't contact the police herself, nor did she speak to Ray Wyre who she claims introduced her and Esther and was also an abuse campaigner. She was right to question why Keenan didn't report any of these supposed allegations herself and ask why she is any less culpable than Esther IF she DID indeed make these allegations to her.
I feel sorry for what happened to Shy Keenan but she is a shocking self publicist who will do anything to get her name in the paper.
Re Esther and the Holly Greig case - she's not on to discuss that case and I would see why she wouldn't.
I agree 100% - why just about everyone wants to make her a scapegoat is beyond me. She has worked tirelessly for many years it's very easy with hindsight to say 'oooh but she didn't act on this or that' - hindsight is wonderful. JS had everyone fooled. Don't understand at all why Esther Rantzen is being vilified.
I agree 100% - why just about everyone wants to make her a scapegoat is beyond me. She has worked tirelessly for many years it's very easy with hindsight to say 'oooh but she didn't act on this or that' - hindsight is wonderful. JS had everyone fooled. Don't understand at all why Esther Rantzen is being vilified.
Exactly, and as she also said, rumours are just rumours and she is being constantly approached with allegations about TV presenters, singers, members of the royal family, politicians, actors and anybody else you can imagine and told there are rumours about them being paedophiles, but without evidence they simply remain as rumours and nothing can be done about them.
glad I'm not alone, I felt something didn't chime too, I am also at the stage of thinking speak to the police or enquiry (daytime tv shows/tabloids seems the wrong route to go down) I also kept getting distracted thinking it was Mitch Winehouse:o
I know, that's the right phrase, it doesn't chime. The account of 'Nobody will believe you, I'm Jimmy Savile and throwing the Jim'll Fix It badge at him sounds like the produce of melodramatic and not very original imagination.
I didn't watch the interview but that doesn't seem odd really, perhaps whoever gave the tie to JS told him who it was from, as the for the 2-3 minutes thing, it could have taken 30 seconds to travel down a few corridors which would have seemed alot further and interesting to a child. I shall have to watch it, do you think he's lying then?
It seems an incredibly risky thing for JS to have done, as the boy's parents were already involved in a way by purchasing the tie.
Would he not have been distressed on rejoining the group? Interesting that the paper paid him a cheque rather that write it to charity. They should stop that or they will scupper the whole investigation.
I believe all the women who have come forward, they are plausible and corroborate each other.
This guy though, he's the wrong age, the wrong sex. His story doesn't chime with the others as they were almost tricked into feeling that they were willing participants and Savile had done nothing wrong or he showered them with gifts to mke them willing. This man's account of him saying 'I'm Jimmy Savile, no one will believe you' and just chucking a Jim'll Fix It badge just doesn't ring true.with their accounts. He was too clever and manipulative to admit it was abuse like that.
I saw the interview this morning and noticed a discrepancy when he told about why he was given the Fix it badge. In the newspaper article he said Savile offered him the badge after noticing how 'devastated' he looked when a badge was awarded to the whole cub pack....the badge was awarded on camera and they ran the old clip of the show in question and the man (as a boy) was not looking devastated, quite the opposite actually. Today he related that Savile offered him the badge after he gave him the tie....never mentioned anything about Savile approaching him because he appeared 'devastated'.
I know, that's the right phrase, it doesn't chime. The account of 'Nobody will believe you, I'm Jimmy Savile and throwing the Jim'll Fix It badge at him sounds like the produce of melodramatic and not very original imagination.
Why do you think that? I thought there was a story about a paperboy too.
Roger Ordish who worked on Jim Fix It seems blinkered or stunned to Savile Scandal on ITV This Morning on Tuesday.
Did you see Esther R on This Morning ashirt while ago ?
I reckon she missed her way , she should have been a politician . Tremendous the way she avoided the pointed questions and even managed to deflect all blame to everyone . " I believe that we as a nation are to blame .."
As I said she'd make a great politician , I don't believe a word they say either .
It seems an incredibly risky thing for JS to have done, as the boy's parents were already involved in a way by purchasing the tie.
Would he not have been distressed on rejoining the group? Interesting that the paper paid him a cheque rather that write it to charity. They should stop that or they will scupper the whole investigation.
Must have missed that, did the paper pay him a cheque, I thought they paid the charity?
glad I'm not alone, I felt something didn't chime too, I am also at the stage of thinking speak to the police or enquiry (daytime tv shows/tabloids seems the wrong route to go down) I also kept getting distracted thinking it was Mitch Winehouse:o
When PS asked him if he'd been paid by the paper, the guy said he'd donated it to the NSPCC. Why didn't PS then say, "as you've asked us also to donate your fee for this interview."
His wife had already reported it to the police, duty done. No need to keep being interviewed about it.
I haven't read through all of this thread, but just wanted to give my opinion on this whole thing. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that there's going to be an enquiry into all of this. The man is dead for god sake. So what if 350 people are saying Jimmy Saville touched them up...I'm sorry, but in my opinion they should have said something when he was alive. I find it unbelievable the way the BBC, members of the government etc are speaking about all of this and the way they are talking about Jimmy Saville. I mean, all of this money spent on the enquiry and what is exactly are they expecting to come from it? The man is dead and it will be impossible to prove anything. I feel sorry for the victims and think the whole thing is horrible, but they should have spoke out when he was alive.
I think you'll find, following the replies you've had so far, that your opinion ain't worth tuppence, within this context. When you questioned why these people never came forward in the first place, your post lost credibility. If you had bothered to read anything about child abuse and how it 'works' you wouldn't have even needed to mention it. Of course, you're 100% free to say exactly what you think but an informed opinion usually gets taken more seriously, whether others agree with it or not.
There are several posters, here, who have given accounts of why they didn't feel able to speak out about being abused as children. Might be helpful for you to read some of them.
Did you see Esther R on This Morning ashirt while ago ?
I reckon she missed her way , she should have been a politician . Tremendous the way she avoided the pointed questions and even managed to deflect all blame to everyone . " I believe that we as a nation are to blame .."
As I said she'd make a great politician , I don't believe a word they say either .
I think she answered all questions very well, especially the one about this woman who apparently told her stuff 18 years ago. This woman (who Esther cannot remember meeting) was involved in some kind of child protection .......errm why did she not tell the police. Why tell Esther and expect her to do it making it third or fourth hand by then? Sonds like she quite clearly has an axe to grind on a personal level with ER.
Did this woman not have a phone? Why was it down to ER to do something? IMO this woman is far more culpable than ER if she heard the story first hand.
This was alledged to have happened to him quite a time ago and as you all know he is relying on his memories of a horrible incident.
Regarding the mans account of what happened.
What is interesting is how people are quick to say it just doesnt sound right.
This is half the problem/reason it takes people so long to come forward. - When they do, people do not believe them. The onus is on the child to prove it happened.
Unfortunately, I think that ANY BBC personality/reporter/celebrity who steps forward and makes the claim that they heard the rumours over the years, are putting themselves up to be asked why they didn't speak up before or do anything about it.
Any person who stands by and allows the young or vulnerable to be abused, whether mentally, sexually or physically, without stepping in or reporting it, is almost as bad as the person committing the crime, to be honest. You can't just shut your eyes and ears and pretend it isn't happening. Not if you want to sleep at night or have a clear conscience.
Her coming forward now with a few hints at knowing more, has bitten her on the backside hasn't it. For some people....it is about jumping on the bandwagon. Did she want a few more inches in the paper?
This is a major scandal. Not only was Savile appointed head of the board that ran Broadmoor for a year, his old friend from Leeds General Infirmary was then appointed CEO!
One of JS's close friends was in a role at Broadmoor, served on the task-force with JS in '88, and then ended up running the place for 9 years, until '97.
If you go to page 35 of the book in your above link, you will see that Alan Franey says that when he was approached in 1987 and asked to be part of the task force in Broadmoor, he had an "unusual meeting at the Athenaeum Club in London with some officials who shall remain nameless and was persuaded that the move to Broadmoor would be a good career step"
Wasn't that the club where SaVile (and others) was a member? Strange that a meeting of that sort should be held in a private members' club.
Savile was almost certainly one of these nameless officials. Franey was appointed CEO of Broadmoor by Kenneth Clarke in 1988.
Franey is now a Tory councillor and his aim at Broadmoor, right from the start was to break the power of the Union, the Prison Officers Association, threatening to replace all the staff with military if they didn't comply. He retired early from the job amid controversy when Labour came to power in 1998 amid accusations of child pornography being distributed in Broadmoor and other accusations of mismanagement of staff.
It's often argued that sexual abuse is more about having power and control over another individual rather than the sex itself. In that vein, I can see that JS might have gone for boys as well as girls. Seeing the fear/ shock in their faces and believing that he had control over the outcome of what he tried to do to them (i.e. knowing he could get away with it because of his status) could have fed his ego, which I don't think anyone would deny, was the size of a small galaxy.
Must admit to being uncomfortable with some people putting themselves so readily in the media spotlight, though. Some of these people will only just be beginning to open up about what happened to them and, in one sense, it's like opening up a stop valve. They might be feeling immense relief at finally being listened to but are perhaps unprepared for the emotions that being caught up in the media frenzy might bring on. Maybe some of them have already undergone a therapeutic process to work through their experiences. Some might not feel they need to because they have moved on. However, for some, this is a bit like letting a beast out of a cage without really knowing what will happen. Also, if some people are now going to the media before reporting to the police or an organization associated with SaVile, then they are risking the 'bandwagon jumper' label. Still, maybe some will do it (go public) because they feel the authorities/ police will orchestrate some kind of cover-up and that they have no reason to trust them. Very difficult.
If Esther wants to redeem herself, she was a journalist. Come on Esther ask the questions that we all should be asking, how and who let this happen?
Hi festyflo.:)
Read your first post. Think you'll find most of us will be very supportive, in this thread. Like others, I'm sorry about what happened to you and how it has made you feel.
It seems like they will be arresting Gary Glitter. Surely he knows a lot of names and things that have gone on - the point he finally blows could be very interesting.
Wonder if it will be like in the films where he gets a good deal if he spills the beans on everyone else .
Never mind the BBC. I was appalled by the statements in the newspaper about nurses warning children to pretend to be alseep when Jimmy came to visit. Horrendous. Why was this man given keys to hospitals and mental homes? Why? Why was he allowed to wander around wards alone? Why and how could he have been able to abuse children for YEARS and nobody did anything to stop him having access to children?
I must admit I am not surprised that someone like Kerry Katona is getting on the bandwagon in one of the magazines. What is going on NOW that we are not being told about. It is time for these paedophiles to be NAMED and SHAMED and PROSECUTED to the full extent of the law. I do not care how famous they are or how much money they conveniently make for charity.
The Belfast Telegraph ran one of the Savile articles in an edition last week where he praised Gary Glitter - the online edition of the paper had readers comments enabled and someone left a comment with a link to an article from 2008 in which a local popular BBC announcer had some great things to say about Gary Glitter....
“He was great. I don’t care what anybody says about him.
“I know he’s probably done things, but nobody is all bad. I really liked him — he was funny.”
“Sometimes Press hound people. Sometimes they find a victim. And right enough they have committed a crime, but sometimes it’s easy for the Press to really give them a hard time.
Very soon after the link appeared the readers comments facility was disabled and the readers comments disappeared...a matter of 'oops!' by the BT mods or what?
The Belfast Telegraph ran one of the Savile articles in an edition last week where he praised Gary Glitter - the online edition of the paper had readers comments enabled and someone left a comment with a link to an article from 2008 in which a local popular BBC announcer had some great things to say about Gary Glitter....
“He was great. I don’t care what anybody says about him.
“I know he’s probably done things, but nobody is all bad. I really liked him — he was funny.”
Veteran radio presenter Gerry Anderson has defended convicted paedophile Gary Glitter — claiming no one is completely evil.
I see. That makes it okay then. All a child abuser or serial killer has to do, is perhaps stroke a cat or a dog, or feed the ducks, and that makes them 'not completely evil', therefore their crimes are balanced out?
Honestly, some people have the most disturbing reasoning I've ever heard.
Comments
People may dislike her personally and think she full of self importamnce etc, but she's done more for abused kids than most.
I hope to god that her charity doesn't suffer because of this. We need Childline.
I agree 100% - why just about everyone wants to make her a scapegoat is beyond me. She has worked tirelessly for many years it's very easy with hindsight to say 'oooh but she didn't act on this or that' - hindsight is wonderful. JS had everyone fooled. Don't understand at all why Esther Rantzen is being vilified.
Exactly, and as she also said, rumours are just rumours and she is being constantly approached with allegations about TV presenters, singers, members of the royal family, politicians, actors and anybody else you can imagine and told there are rumours about them being paedophiles, but without evidence they simply remain as rumours and nothing can be done about them.
I know, that's the right phrase, it doesn't chime. The account of 'Nobody will believe you, I'm Jimmy Savile and throwing the Jim'll Fix It badge at him sounds like the produce of melodramatic and not very original imagination.
Would he not have been distressed on rejoining the group? Interesting that the paper paid him a cheque rather that write it to charity. They should stop that or they will scupper the whole investigation.
I saw the interview this morning and noticed a discrepancy when he told about why he was given the Fix it badge. In the newspaper article he said Savile offered him the badge after noticing how 'devastated' he looked when a badge was awarded to the whole cub pack....the badge was awarded on camera and they ran the old clip of the show in question and the man (as a boy) was not looking devastated, quite the opposite actually. Today he related that Savile offered him the badge after he gave him the tie....never mentioned anything about Savile approaching him because he appeared 'devastated'.
Why do you think that? I thought there was a story about a paperboy too.
Did you see Esther R on This Morning ashirt while ago ?
I reckon she missed her way , she should have been a politician . Tremendous the way she avoided the pointed questions and even managed to deflect all blame to everyone . " I believe that we as a nation are to blame .."
As I said she'd make a great politician , I don't believe a word they say either .
Last year, in a tribute to JS on Radio 5 Live he'd said: "I spent a lot of time with him and would say I knew him probably as well as anybody else knew him."
Must have missed that, did the paper pay him a cheque, I thought they paid the charity?
His wife had already reported it to the police, duty done. No need to keep being interviewed about it.
I think you'll find, following the replies you've had so far, that your opinion ain't worth tuppence, within this context. When you questioned why these people never came forward in the first place, your post lost credibility. If you had bothered to read anything about child abuse and how it 'works' you wouldn't have even needed to mention it. Of course, you're 100% free to say exactly what you think but an informed opinion usually gets taken more seriously, whether others agree with it or not.
There are several posters, here, who have given accounts of why they didn't feel able to speak out about being abused as children. Might be helpful for you to read some of them.
I think she answered all questions very well, especially the one about this woman who apparently told her stuff 18 years ago. This woman (who Esther cannot remember meeting) was involved in some kind of child protection .......errm why did she not tell the police. Why tell Esther and expect her to do it making it third or fourth hand by then? Sonds like she quite clearly has an axe to grind on a personal level with ER.
Did this woman not have a phone? Why was it down to ER to do something? IMO this woman is far more culpable than ER if she heard the story first hand.
Regarding the mans account of what happened.
What is interesting is how people are quick to say it just doesnt sound right.
This is half the problem/reason it takes people so long to come forward. - When they do, people do not believe them. The onus is on the child to prove it happened.
Any person who stands by and allows the young or vulnerable to be abused, whether mentally, sexually or physically, without stepping in or reporting it, is almost as bad as the person committing the crime, to be honest. You can't just shut your eyes and ears and pretend it isn't happening. Not if you want to sleep at night or have a clear conscience.
Her coming forward now with a few hints at knowing more, has bitten her on the backside hasn't it. For some people....it is about jumping on the bandwagon. Did she want a few more inches in the paper?
This is a major scandal. Not only was Savile appointed head of the board that ran Broadmoor for a year, his old friend from Leeds General Infirmary was then appointed CEO!
This was posted last night:
Savile was a member of the Athenaeum club
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/celebritynews/9596850/Sir-Jimmy-Savile-causes-anguish-at-the-Athenaeum.html
Savile was almost certainly one of these nameless officials. Franey was appointed CEO of Broadmoor by Kenneth Clarke in 1988.
Franey is now a Tory councillor and his aim at Broadmoor, right from the start was to break the power of the Union, the Prison Officers Association, threatening to replace all the staff with military if they didn't comply. He retired early from the job amid controversy when Labour came to power in 1998 amid accusations of child pornography being distributed in Broadmoor and other accusations of mismanagement of staff.
Must admit to being uncomfortable with some people putting themselves so readily in the media spotlight, though. Some of these people will only just be beginning to open up about what happened to them and, in one sense, it's like opening up a stop valve. They might be feeling immense relief at finally being listened to but are perhaps unprepared for the emotions that being caught up in the media frenzy might bring on. Maybe some of them have already undergone a therapeutic process to work through their experiences. Some might not feel they need to because they have moved on. However, for some, this is a bit like letting a beast out of a cage without really knowing what will happen. Also, if some people are now going to the media before reporting to the police or an organization associated with SaVile, then they are risking the 'bandwagon jumper' label. Still, maybe some will do it (go public) because they feel the authorities/ police will orchestrate some kind of cover-up and that they have no reason to trust them. Very difficult.
Hi festyflo.:)
Read your first post. Think you'll find most of us will be very supportive, in this thread. Like others, I'm sorry about what happened to you and how it has made you feel.
Wonder if it will be like in the films where he gets a good deal if he spills the beans on everyone else .
Exactly , I've found a soul-mate
“He was great. I don’t care what anybody says about him.
“I know he’s probably done things, but nobody is all bad. I really liked him — he was funny.”
“Sometimes Press hound people. Sometimes they find a victim. And right enough they have committed a crime, but sometimes it’s easy for the Press to really give them a hard time.
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/gary-glitter-was-a-great-guy--gerry-anderson-13986773.html
Very soon after the link appeared the readers comments facility was disabled and the readers comments disappeared...a matter of 'oops!' by the BT mods or what?
Me too....
That's maybe worse in that case , my point was that he was abusing young females back in 1958 and presumably even before that .
Honestly, some people have the most disturbing reasoning I've ever heard.