Yeah, I agree. Syed never struck me as being particularly bothered about Danny in a sexual way (maybe this was just bad writing, I don't know, but this is what came across to me), but Danny was a) useful to him b) flattering his ego by being a good-looking, successful guy who was genuinely interested in him and listened to what he had to say and c) was very, very different to Christian. That last one sounds bad, but Syed didn't need someone who was kind and supportive and genuine, he needed someone ruthless and ambitious and, well, rich. Did Syed have a couple of thoughts like 'man, I wish I could live in a penthouse'? Sure. But who hasn't, especially when you're debt-ridden? It wasn't about Danny specifically, it was about the lifestyle he represented, and a lifestyle that became appealing because he'd messed up his own (perfectly lovely) lifestyle. You always window-shop the most when you can afford the least.
That is the way I see it too. And if it was bad writing then for once I am grateful, as it helped me get though the storyline.
I really wasn't expecting it to be that bad. I was 'just' expecting bruises, not that amount of blood. I assumed by the time Syed saw him he'd be cleaned up a bit.
Yeah, I agree. Syed never struck me as being particularly bothered about Danny in a sexual way (maybe this was just bad writing, I don't know, but this is what came across to me), but Danny was a) useful to him b) flattering his ego by being a good-looking, successful guy who was genuinely interested in him and listened to what he had to say and c) was very, very different to Christian. That last one sounds bad, but Syed didn't need someone who was kind and supportive and genuine, he needed someone ruthless and ambitious and, well, rich. Did Syed have a couple of thoughts like 'man, I wish I could live in a penthouse'? Sure. But who hasn't, especially when you're debt-ridden? It wasn't about Danny specifically, it was about the lifestyle he represented, and a lifestyle that became appealing because he'd messed up his own (perfectly lovely) lifestyle. You always window-shop the most when you can afford the least.
I wish I could see it like this. But I can't. Because Syed found Danny personally attractive, because it felt 'possible' to him, fantasy though it was.
And that's why Syed fessed that it wasn't just 'nothing', because it wasn't. It was massively to do with everything you say. But Syed fell for it, because a big piece of him wanted not just the lifestyle, but Danny.
He realised just what Danny was, but the temptation was there. And he acknowledged that to Christian.
Yes, Syed thought him attractive, it was a fantasy, that it was possible doesn't mean that Syed wanted it, that he actually wanted him. I could fancy someone who fancied me, it could be possible, but it doesn't mean I would really want it!
We saw how Syed described the kiss the morning of the wedding, he couldn't even believe he'd kissed him really, why he would do that, how bad he felt about even a kiss. Because it wasn't really about DTW at all, it was about Syed, and the situation he was in, a personal crisis. He was doubting himself, and kissed Danny recklessly, almost self-destructively, a symbol of his inner turmoil. Syed ran out, confused, feeling terrible. When Danny came out and kissed him, DTW was in predatory and manipulative mode, Syed was quite passive in that kiss. If he had really wanted Danny he could quite easily have gone home with him that night and slept with him. But he didn't, because he didn't want to. It was all about Syed's image of himself, what he had done to his family, his self-doubt about his readiness for marriage, emphasised because of how he was feeling about the financial mess and family betrayal. Questioning himself, who he was and what he wanted. But with Danny it was almost like an act, he fancied him, yes, but it was about what Danny represented, an escape, a false and distorted reflection of what Syed could be, of the success, of being carefree, of not caring. Almost going back to before he came out. But Syed is not that person, and could never be that person, and wouldn't want to be, because he does care, he knows the meaning and value of love, wants something more meaningful. It only told him it wasn't what he wanted, was never what he wanted. If he hadn’t have got himself in the financial situation he was in and lied to his family, he wouldn’t have kissed him I don’t believe. His love for Christian was never in question. He then re-worked that image, that he could still be successful, and himself, and be with who he wants, Christian, and have a family too.
I never saw chemistry - thankfully. I'm not even sure what the point of Danny was/is so I'll go with 'escapist ego boost for Syed'
That's pretty much it. They haven't developed it well, but that's what I get from it. It definitely wasn't overwhelming lust motivating Syed at any rate.
And I saw a good amount of chemistry during the stag night ep but certain other scenes were painfully chemistryless.
Yes, Syed thought him attractive, it was a fantasy, that it was possible doesn't mean that Syed wanted it, that he actually wanted him. I could fancy someone who fancied me, it could be possible, but it doesn't mean I would really want it!
We saw how Syed described the kiss the morning of the wedding, he couldn't even believe he'd kissed him really, why he would do that, how bad he felt about even a kiss. Because it wasn't really about DTW at all, it was about Syed, and the situation he was in, a personal crisis. He was doubting himself, and kissed Danny recklessly, almost self-destructively, a symbol of his inner turmoil. Syed ran out, confused, feeling terrible. When Danny came out and kissed him, DTW was in predatory and manipulative mode, Syed was quite passive in that kiss. If he had really wanted Danny he could quite easily have gone home with him that night and slept with him. But he didn't, because he didn't want to. It was all about Syed's image of himself, what he had done to his family, his self-doubt about his readiness for marriage, emphasised because of how he was feeling about the financial mess and family betrayal. Questioning himself, who he was and what he wanted. But with Danny it was almost like an act, he fancied him, yes, but it was about what Danny represented, an escape, a false and distorted reflection of what Syed could be, of the success, of being carefree, of not caring. Almost going back to before he came out. But Syed is not that person, and could never be that person, and wouldn't want to be, because he does care, he knows the meaning and value of love, wants something more meaningful. It only told him it wasn't what he wanted, was never what he wanted. If he hadn’t have got himself in the financial situation he was in and lied to his family, he wouldn’t have kissed him I don’t believe. His love for Christian was never in question. He then re-worked that image, that he could still be successful, and himself, and be with who he wants, Christian, and have a family too.
Right, he was tempted, and he gave into that, and then he realised Danny was a prick, and understood what he had.
His love for Christian was in question - he was selfishly seeking approbation and escape. Perfectly understandable in the circumstances, but bloody weak and stupid and a betrayal nonetheless, Lovesy.
And he lied, and lied. I forgave him because he came clean about it.
And I liked the fact that Danny just hinted, like Syed hinted about the 'more'. Because it was an emotional connection, whatever Syed's reasons.
I've never felt that Syed was unhappy in his lifestyle with Christian, that he wanted something else. He wanted to be a success yes, but a lot of that is for his family, including Christian, and his own self-respect and sense of contribution, of value. A lot of this because of how he was brought up. He always wanted that home, that family, to feel like he belonged, to have someone that truly knew him and loved him, and who he loved in return. Any doubt has come from his own lack of esteem and doubt that he can do it, that he is worth it, and worthy of it, that he can be a success at anything, and not get it wrong.
I've never felt that Syed was unhappy in his lifestyle with Christian, that he wanted something else. He wanted to be a success yes, but a lot of that is for his family, including Christian, and his own self-respect and sense of contribution, of value. A lot of this because of how he was brought up. He always wanted that home, that family, to feel like he belonged, to have someone that truly knew him and loved him, and who he loved in return. Any doubt has come from his own lack of esteem and doubt that he can do it, that he is worth it, and worthy of it, that he can be a success at anything, and not get it wrong.
what he wants was okay. The way he went about it was terrible. And he got, and is still getting it wrong. And it will get worse.
I meant that we were lead to believe from the spoilers that Syed and Danny were going to have this great sexual attraction from the first time they saw each other and I never got that. Yes Syed may have looked at him and thought he was good looking. But I don't think it would have gone beyond that if Syed had not been in a difficult place with money, the wedding and family stuff. Danny always felt like a symptom of the problems around Syed and never a cure.
I can kind of see where EE was going with this s/l - exploring Syed's backstory with the Masoods (a type of full circle); favouritism, secrets, money issues, and Chryed's differences: age, ambition, experience...it's just a bit sloppy and badly done.
I meant that we were lead to believe from the spoilers that Syed and Danny were going to have this great sexual attraction from the first time they saw each other and I never got that. Yes Syed may have looked at him and thought he was good looking. But I don't think it would have gone beyond that if Syed had not been in a difficult place with money, the wedding and family stuff. Danny always felt like a symptom of the problems around Syed and never a cure.
Not sure I am making an sense
No I agree. I want it to be that, yes, but that's also what I saw.
I can kind of see where EE was going with this s/l - exploring Syed's backstory with the Masoods (a type of full circle); favouritism, secrets, money issues, and Chryed's differences: age, ambition, experience...it's just a bit sloppy and badly done.
Yes, this. The intent's there but the execution isn't.
Right, he was tempted, and he gave into that, and then he realised Danny was a prick, and understood what he had.
His love for Christian was in question - he was selfishly seeking approbation and escape. Perfectly understandable in the circumstances, but bloody weak and stupid and a betrayal nonetheless, Lovesy.
And he lied, and lied. I forgave him because he came clean about it.
And I liked the fact that Danny just hinted, like Syed hinted about the 'more'. Because it was an emotional connection, whatever Syed's reasons.
And that emotion he excluded Christian from.
And it made it clear.
And easier to understand Christian's despair.
I don't believe Syed ever doubted that he loved Christian, he has always shown great conviction in that. Even with the latest spoilers saying he doesn't say it at a crucial point(for whatever reason, hopefully it will make some kind of sense in the light of DTW lying!) he still completely loves him, as he clarifies later on. But he clarified this at the wedding too, and throughout the history of their story.
BIB Exactly. It was stupid, a betrayal, he lied, but it was understandable like you say, and Christian forgave him, I, and you, forgave him.
You could call it an emotional connection on some level. An emotional cry out from Syed. Syed in trouble, confused, desperate, vulnerable. And he should have turned to Christian yes, and it's that that hurt Christian, made him sad, along with the lies. But it's not always that easy, and I could sympathise with Syed, understand it, even if i didn't agree with it and couldn't condone it. I also really felt for Christian, who had been nothing but lovely and didn't deserve it. But from DTW it was emotional manipulation, a game, an ego trip, a power trip. There was no real emotional connection there in the sense that it was mutual, equal and on the same wave length.
Hmmmm re-watched the wedding day 'it was more than just a kiss' scene.....argh dunno if it's all the chat but when C's grilling him it could be interpreted as Syed so hates C's anger and hurt that he lies.........but NOOOOOO bad doubts.
I meant that we were lead to believe from the spoilers that Syed and Danny were going to have this great sexual attraction from the first time they saw each other and I never got that. Yes Syed may have looked at him and thought he was good looking. But I don't think it would have gone beyond that if Syed had not been in a difficult place with money, the wedding and family stuff. Danny always felt like a symptom of the problems around Syed and never a cure.
Not sure I am making an sense
I think all that 'softened' Syed up. And I don't think it would have happened without it.
But I saw interest from Syed, seriously. And that's why he tried to fess that up to Christian.
It wasn't 'just a kiss', it was more important than that - it was Syed responding emotionally and sexually to someone else.
I meant that we were lead to believe from the spoilers that Syed and Danny were going to have this great sexual attraction from the first time they saw each other and I never got that. Yes Syed may have looked at him and thought he was good looking. But I don't think it would have gone beyond that if Syed had not been in a difficult place with money, the wedding and family stuff. Danny always felt like a symptom of the problems around Syed and never a cure.
Not sure I am making an sense
This is how I saw it too. BIB - Couldn't agree more, and a great way of putting it, a symptom, not a cure, or even the actual illness, just a symptom.
I've got to go, it's past my bedtime, and I'm off to the circus tomorrow:p:D
I thought the line from DTW to Christian, "it was more...much more" was clever and damaging. He never explicitly said they did anything more than kiss, it was purposely ambiguous, but it could easily have meant more emotionally as much as/ rather than physically. The wording mirrors how Syed himself described it: "In my head...in my heart it was more." This will have been like a stab to the heart; the hideous reminder that Syed was, and the possibility that perhaps he still is emotionally drawn to DTW and away from their relationship, their life together will be worse for Christian than any physical infidelity.
The way Christian turned round at the end revealing his bloodied face was very apt for the Halloween episode. The look on his face was horrible, it was like he was devoid of emotion and was wearing a mask. No way would DTW have been able to inflict that kind of damage, especially not after Christian had floored him with that first punch. I reckon Christian actually allowed Danny to fight back, either because he wanted to be hurt physically to detract temporarily from the emotional pain, or because he didn't care enough to put a stop to it.
Hmmmm re-watched the wedding day 'it was more than just a kiss' scene.....argh dunno if it's all the chat but when C's grilling him it could be interpreted as Syed so hates C's anger and hurt that he lies.........but NOOOOOO bad doubts.
See, I rewatched it the other day and it just made me even more convinced that he was telling the truth. Syed doesn't back off when people get angry, he backs off when people get hurt. If Christian had gone all quiet and serious like he does when he's talking about Syed having feelings for Danny, then I would buy Syed feeling awful and backing off. But he doesn't, he reacts with anger, and I don't think that would make Syed back off.
Also, Syed wasn't pulling any punches and hurt Christian repeatedly during that conversation. He hurt him far more by saying that Danny made him feel like he could be someone, for example. The way he stands up, too, and won't let Christian just forgive him for a kiss- that's not the way a person reacts when they're lying.
I'll be really surprised if Danny's not lying tbh.
I thought the line from DTW to Christian, "it was more...much more" was clever and damaging. He never explicitly said they did anything more than kiss, it was purposely ambiguous, but it could easily have meant more emotionally as much as/ rather than physically. The wording mirrors how Syed himself described it: "In my head...in my heart it was more." This will have been like a stab to the heart; the hideous reminder that Syed was, and the possibility that perhaps he still is emotionally drawn to DTW and away from their relationship, their life together will be worse for Christian than any physical infidelity.
The way Christian turned round at the end revealing his bloodied face was very apt for the Halloween episode. The look on his face was horrible, it was like he was devoid of emotion and was wearing a mask. No way would DTW have been able to inflict that kind of damage, especially not after Christian had floored him with that first punch. I reckon Christian actually allowed Danny to fight back, either because he wanted to be hurt physically to detract temporarily from the emotional pain, or because he didn't care enough to put a stop to it.
Absolutely agree, it's what I've been trying to say, all of it.
I thought the line from DTW to Christian, "it was more...much more" was clever and damaging. He never explicitly said they did anything more than kiss, it was purposely ambiguous, but it could easily have meant more emotionally as much as/ rather than physically. The wording mirrors how Syed himself described it: "In my head...in my heart it was more." This will have been like a stab to the heart; the hideous reminder that Syed was, and the possibility that perhaps he still is emotionally drawn to DTW and away from their relationship, their life together will be worse for Christian than any physical infidelity.
The way Christian turned round at the end revealing his bloodied face was very apt for the Halloween episode. The look on his face was horrible, it was like he was devoid of emotion and was wearing a mask. No way would DTW have been able to inflict that kind of damage, especially not after Christian had floored him with that first punch. I reckon Christian actually allowed Danny to fight back, either because he wanted to be hurt physically to detract temporarily from the emotional pain, or because he didn't care enough to put a stop to it.
Comments
That is the way I see it too. And if it was bad writing then for once I am grateful, as it helped me get though the storyline.
Agree.
But I am grateful he's such a slimeball and bastard.
It could have been worse, because if he wasn''t, Syed might have chosen him.:(
How do you square that with the first kiss?
And Syed's response to the second?
Just interested.
All this:)
Yes, Syed thought him attractive, it was a fantasy, that it was possible doesn't mean that Syed wanted it, that he actually wanted him. I could fancy someone who fancied me, it could be possible, but it doesn't mean I would really want it!
We saw how Syed described the kiss the morning of the wedding, he couldn't even believe he'd kissed him really, why he would do that, how bad he felt about even a kiss. Because it wasn't really about DTW at all, it was about Syed, and the situation he was in, a personal crisis. He was doubting himself, and kissed Danny recklessly, almost self-destructively, a symbol of his inner turmoil. Syed ran out, confused, feeling terrible. When Danny came out and kissed him, DTW was in predatory and manipulative mode, Syed was quite passive in that kiss. If he had really wanted Danny he could quite easily have gone home with him that night and slept with him. But he didn't, because he didn't want to. It was all about Syed's image of himself, what he had done to his family, his self-doubt about his readiness for marriage, emphasised because of how he was feeling about the financial mess and family betrayal. Questioning himself, who he was and what he wanted. But with Danny it was almost like an act, he fancied him, yes, but it was about what Danny represented, an escape, a false and distorted reflection of what Syed could be, of the success, of being carefree, of not caring. Almost going back to before he came out. But Syed is not that person, and could never be that person, and wouldn't want to be, because he does care, he knows the meaning and value of love, wants something more meaningful. It only told him it wasn't what he wanted, was never what he wanted. If he hadn’t have got himself in the financial situation he was in and lied to his family, he wouldn’t have kissed him I don’t believe. His love for Christian was never in question. He then re-worked that image, that he could still be successful, and himself, and be with who he wants, Christian, and have a family too.
Yes.:(
But it's a measure of how broken Christian is, that he hides it.
He hides nothing (except to protect Syed).
But then again, there you have it.:(
Because this time he's terrified of losing Syed, again, and compromises himself.
Hate this.
That's sad
Btw, Christian said to Danny something like you think 'your the romance of the century' loll ironic because clearly Chryed's are ee's
That's pretty much it. They haven't developed it well, but that's what I get from it. It definitely wasn't overwhelming lust motivating Syed at any rate.
And I saw a good amount of chemistry during the stag night ep but certain other scenes were painfully chemistryless.
Right, he was tempted, and he gave into that, and then he realised Danny was a prick, and understood what he had.
His love for Christian was in question - he was selfishly seeking approbation and escape. Perfectly understandable in the circumstances, but bloody weak and stupid and a betrayal nonetheless, Lovesy.
And he lied, and lied. I forgave him because he came clean about it.
And I liked the fact that Danny just hinted, like Syed hinted about the 'more'. Because it was an emotional connection, whatever Syed's reasons.
And that emotion he excluded Christian from.
And it made it clear.
And easier to understand Christian's despair.
what he wants was okay. The way he went about it was terrible. And he got, and is still getting it wrong. And it will get worse.
I meant that we were lead to believe from the spoilers that Syed and Danny were going to have this great sexual attraction from the first time they saw each other and I never got that. Yes Syed may have looked at him and thought he was good looking. But I don't think it would have gone beyond that if Syed had not been in a difficult place with money, the wedding and family stuff. Danny always felt like a symptom of the problems around Syed and never a cure.
Not sure I am making an sense
No I agree. I want it to be that, yes, but that's also what I saw.
Yes, this. The intent's there but the execution isn't.
I don't believe Syed ever doubted that he loved Christian, he has always shown great conviction in that. Even with the latest spoilers saying he doesn't say it at a crucial point(for whatever reason, hopefully it will make some kind of sense in the light of DTW lying!) he still completely loves him, as he clarifies later on. But he clarified this at the wedding too, and throughout the history of their story.
BIB Exactly. It was stupid, a betrayal, he lied, but it was understandable like you say, and Christian forgave him, I, and you, forgave him.
You could call it an emotional connection on some level. An emotional cry out from Syed. Syed in trouble, confused, desperate, vulnerable. And he should have turned to Christian yes, and it's that that hurt Christian, made him sad, along with the lies. But it's not always that easy, and I could sympathise with Syed, understand it, even if i didn't agree with it and couldn't condone it. I also really felt for Christian, who had been nothing but lovely and didn't deserve it. But from DTW it was emotional manipulation, a game, an ego trip, a power trip. There was no real emotional connection there in the sense that it was mutual, equal and on the same wave length.
We needed Pete to write every ep :cool:
I think all that 'softened' Syed up. And I don't think it would have happened without it.
But I saw interest from Syed, seriously. And that's why he tried to fess that up to Christian.
It wasn't 'just a kiss', it was more important than that - it was Syed responding emotionally and sexually to someone else.
Circumstances can explain it, but it happened.
This is how I saw it too. BIB - Couldn't agree more, and a great way of putting it, a symptom, not a cure, or even the actual illness, just a symptom.
I've got to go, it's past my bedtime, and I'm off to the circus tomorrow:p:D
Night all:) xx
The way Christian turned round at the end revealing his bloodied face was very apt for the Halloween episode. The look on his face was horrible, it was like he was devoid of emotion and was wearing a mask. No way would DTW have been able to inflict that kind of damage, especially not after Christian had floored him with that first punch. I reckon Christian actually allowed Danny to fight back, either because he wanted to be hurt physically to detract temporarily from the emotional pain, or because he didn't care enough to put a stop to it.
I ADORE the circus - always have and can't help it - have a damned and awesome good time.:D
See, I rewatched it the other day and it just made me even more convinced that he was telling the truth. Syed doesn't back off when people get angry, he backs off when people get hurt. If Christian had gone all quiet and serious like he does when he's talking about Syed having feelings for Danny, then I would buy Syed feeling awful and backing off. But he doesn't, he reacts with anger, and I don't think that would make Syed back off.
Also, Syed wasn't pulling any punches and hurt Christian repeatedly during that conversation. He hurt him far more by saying that Danny made him feel like he could be someone, for example. The way he stands up, too, and won't let Christian just forgive him for a kiss- that's not the way a person reacts when they're lying.
I'll be really surprised if Danny's not lying tbh.
Absolutely agree, it's what I've been trying to say, all of it.
Ouch