But if she put herself in a position where sexual or intimate physical contact might be expected I'm not sure you can say that is assault, if she sat on his lap in a small closed room, and she was 16.
I am not quite sure how to answer your post civilly!! So if a girl sits on your knee that gives you the right to grope her?? :eek::eek:
I am not quite sure how to answer your post civilly!! So if a girl sits on your knee that gives you the right to grope her?? :eek::eek:
But the situation matters doesn't it? If it was a church fete or even at a party in a sort of jokey way, obviously you wouldn't expect any sexual contact, but if you sat on someone's lap in a small room with the door closed, might you not expect some intimate contact? Obviously it would be different if the person pulled you onto their lap.
Channel 4 news covering the newsnight story right now
A story about a story that nobody dared tell.
Isn't this how these people get away with such terrible crimes in the first place. Someone needs to strap a pair on and say what they know and blow the whole thing wide open.
But the situation matters doesn't it? If it was a church fete or even at a party in a sort of jokey way, obviously you wouldn't expect any sexual contact, but if you sat on someone's lap in a small room with the door closed, might you not expect some intimate contact?
I find this post (and those preceding it) really worrying. This was a man in a position of authority and a celebrity to boot. We are talking about a young and impressionable, vulnerable girl!! She would have been in awe of JS and probably delighted to have the attention - he abused that trust.
Saying that, all too often adults will engineer a situation getting young people into a situation where they are in an enclosed space and in a potentially compromised position, They exploit this knowing that people such as you will make just such a judgement should that young person say that they were assaulted.... It is akin to blaming the victim for being raped....
Isn't this how these people get away with such terrible crimes in the first place. Someone needs to strap a pair on and say what they know and blow the whole thing wide open.
Needs loads of people at once so there's too many to squish.
Isn't this how these people get away with such terrible crimes in the first place. Someone needs to strap a pair on and say what they know and blow the whole thing wide open.
If it is and I hope it is then clearly someone is trying to blow the whole thing wide open and take out one of the 'big' players. That way, others of the same ilk will be running scared, knowing the can has been opened and the worms are being released - albeit slowly!
I sincerely hope they are cr@pping themselves tonight, they've sat pretty for decades .... their time may just be coming!
Not a current MP - so discounting most of the names circulating on twitter and bringing you back to...
I must have missed that bit - all I recall Crick very carefully saying (in a very measured tone so as not to provide any clues as to the person's position or office) was that it was a Conservative Party official
But if she put herself in a position where sexual or intimate physical contact might be expected I'm not sure you can say that is assault, if she sat on his lap in a small closed room, and she was 16.
I thought the redress for a groping, 40 years ago, was mostly a hefty slap around the face and that was the end of it.
A slap from a female in return for a groping wouldn't have been seen as an assault then but as a punishment.
Would many women have thought of running straight to the Police ... or would they just wait 40 years to do so?
But, to be fair, we are talking about a 16 year old girl who may not have felt confident enough to just slap him.
But the situation matters doesn't it? If it was a church fete or even at a party in a sort of jokey way, obviously you wouldn't expect any sexual contact, but if you sat on someone's lap in a small room with the door closed, might you not expect some intimate contact? Obviously it would be different if the person pulled you onto their lap.
I doubt any girls sat on Saville's lap willingly : more likely that he "invited" them to do so and with his power and celebrity it would be difficult for any girl to decline.
I must have missed that bit - all I recall Crick very carefully saying (in a very measured tone so as not to provide any clues as to the person's position or office) was that it was a Conservative official
I thought something was said that indicated the individual was no longer an MP, at some point it clicked who it was (out of the other senior names circulating) because of that. Need to watch again, without one eye on two forums at the same time!
I thought the redress for a groping, 40 years ago, was mostly a hefty slap around the face and that was the end of it.
A slap from a female in return for a groping wouldn't have been seen as an assault then but as a punishment.
Would many women have thought of running straight to the Police ... or would they just wait 40 years to do so?
But, to be fair, we are talking about a 16 year old girl who may not have felt confident enough to just slap him.
No 40 yrs ago after a groping you just stayed stum because no one would have believed you anyway or if they did they would think you were asking for *it*. Your clothes and life style would have been finely scrutinised and god help you if you wore a short skirt because that was sure proof you were a tramp! So you put up and shut up and in doing so gave the groper the green light that it was ok to carry on groping and if you were lucky it stopped there and if unlucky it went further
And that was life in the work place for a lot of women 40 yrs ago!
No 40 yrs ago after a groping you just stayed stum because no one would have believed you anyway or if they did they would think you were asking for *it*. Your clothes and life style would have been finely scrutinised and god help you if you wore a short skirt because that was sure proof you were a tramp! So you put up and shut up and in doing so gave the groper the green light that it was ok to carry on groping and if you were lucky it stopped there and if unlucky it went further
And that was life in the work place for a lot of women 40 yrs ago!
If you slapped him now the police would arrest you for assault.
But by being quiet that left them to continue, if you complained they ridiculed you as frigid, that was their way of humiliation.
If you slapped him now the police would arrest you for assault.
But by being quiet that left them to continue, if you complained they ridiculed you as frigid, that was their way of humiliation.
I read recently that there are two kinds of gropers. The ones who make an opportunistic pass at girls they fancy but immediately take "no" for an answer......and then the ones who ridicule or humiliate the girl if she rejects them, these are the ones who hate women (Freddie Starr et al).
:eek:Deeply disturbing reading. Really makes me think we will never really get to the bottom of this :mad:
Starting to wonder if it wouldn't be an easier investigation to find out who isn't dodgy, or who hasn't got something to hide. Indeed, it is all deeply disturbing. Part of me wants to go back to my nice trusting naive little world :sleep:
Comments
I am not quite sure how to answer your post civilly!! So if a girl sits on your knee that gives you the right to grope her?? :eek::eek:
A story about a story that nobody dared tell.
Isn't this how these people get away with such terrible crimes in the first place. Someone needs to strap a pair on and say what they know and blow the whole thing wide open.
You talking about the Newsnight thing?
Get her in for questioning now!
Yess.
I find this post (and those preceding it) really worrying. This was a man in a position of authority and a celebrity to boot. We are talking about a young and impressionable, vulnerable girl!! She would have been in awe of JS and probably delighted to have the attention - he abused that trust.
Saying that, all too often adults will engineer a situation getting young people into a situation where they are in an enclosed space and in a potentially compromised position, They exploit this knowing that people such as you will make just such a judgement should that young person say that they were assaulted.... It is akin to blaming the victim for being raped....
Needs loads of people at once so there's too many to squish.
What was said on channel 4?
Apparently Newsnight aren't going to name the politician now.
Not sure, but do a google and you'll come up with the name.
If it is and I hope it is then clearly someone is trying to blow the whole thing wide open and take out one of the 'big' players. That way, others of the same ilk will be running scared, knowing the can has been opened and the worms are being released - albeit slowly!
I sincerely hope they are cr@pping themselves tonight, they've sat pretty for decades .... their time may just be coming!
Not a current MP - so discounting most of the names circulating on twitter and bringing you back to...
I thought the redress for a groping, 40 years ago, was mostly a hefty slap around the face and that was the end of it.
A slap from a female in return for a groping wouldn't have been seen as an assault then but as a punishment.
Would many women have thought of running straight to the Police ... or would they just wait 40 years to do so?
But, to be fair, we are talking about a 16 year old girl who may not have felt confident enough to just slap him.
I doubt any girls sat on Saville's lap willingly : more likely that he "invited" them to do so and with his power and celebrity it would be difficult for any girl to decline.
I thought something was said that indicated the individual was no longer an MP, at some point it clicked who it was (out of the other senior names circulating) because of that. Need to watch again, without one eye on two forums at the same time!
Wonder if he eats Alpan for breakfast?
Curious who is advising him
Strange how far 'political privilege' goes
If the MP issue is true, it may go some way to explain the pressures the BBC could have been under to drop their Savile story.
No 40 yrs ago after a groping you just stayed stum because no one would have believed you anyway or if they did they would think you were asking for *it*. Your clothes and life style would have been finely scrutinised and god help you if you wore a short skirt because that was sure proof you were a tramp! So you put up and shut up and in doing so gave the groper the green light that it was ok to carry on groping and if you were lucky it stopped there and if unlucky it went further
And that was life in the work place for a lot of women 40 yrs ago!
:eek:Deeply disturbing reading. Really makes me think we will never really get to the bottom of this :mad:
If you slapped him now the police would arrest you for assault.
But by being quiet that left them to continue, if you complained they ridiculed you as frigid, that was their way of humiliation.
I read recently that there are two kinds of gropers. The ones who make an opportunistic pass at girls they fancy but immediately take "no" for an answer......and then the ones who ridicule or humiliate the girl if she rejects them, these are the ones who hate women (Freddie Starr et al).
Starting to wonder if it wouldn't be an easier investigation to find out who isn't dodgy, or who hasn't got something to hide. Indeed, it is all deeply disturbing. Part of me wants to go back to my nice trusting naive little world :sleep: