You understand what I'm saying perfectly surely. That if they only sold the s3 they would sell more s3's because some of the s3 sales are lost to their other products. A different situation to apple.
What possible reason could you have for pretending to not understand something so simple?
I think they just have an inability to accept Apple as in a compromised position. It's fairly obvious that the S3 would be even more successful if Samsung Mobile only had that one device to spend the entire budget on, but Samsung prefer choice and adapting to consumer choice.
It's actually ironic that that poster is suggesting that Samsung have their 'product strategy wrong' considering it is Apple who has failed to adapt their model based on past mistakes. This whole Android vs. iOS is panning out exactly like Windows vs. Mac. Apple are finding out that they are on a slow decay. Android already controls the smartphone market, but I was simply remarking that it is incredible that one Android device is now capable of outselling the iPhone despite Apple's head start. They may have created the market, but as with past scenarios, their model means that they are almost always unable to sustain a lead within that market.
Oh dear, I'll leave this for others to read. To be clear, did you want it to be a specific quarter, or would you like to narrow it down to a specific week (or day).
you might just be being a little obtuse here
'most popular' is normally considered to be within a certain period otherwise we would be describing the current most popular music as Brian Adams or The Beatles - hey they sold loads and are still on sale therefore they must be the most popular
Having said that im not going to say whether a day, week, month, quarter or year is the most sensible measure as someone will disagree with whatever I say
I think they just have an inability to accept Apple as in a compromised position. It's fairly obvious that the S3 would be even more successful if Samsung Mobile only had that one device to spend the entire budget on, but Samsung prefer choice and adapting to consumer choice.
It's actually ironic that that poster is suggesting that Samsung have their 'product strategy wrong' considering it is Apple who has failed to adapt their model based on past mistakes. This whole Android vs. iOS is panning out exactly like Windows vs. Mac. Apple are finding out that they are on a slow decay. Android already controls the smartphone market, but I was simply remarking that it is incredible that one Android device is now capable of outselling the iPhone despite Apple's head start. They may have created the market, but as with past scenarios, their model means that they are almost always unable to sustain a lead within that market.
How do a higher marketshare than the same quarter the previous year, and a higher number of sales than the same quarter the previous year, equate to "a slow decay"?
How do a higher marketshare than the same quarter the previous year, and a higher number of sales than the same quarter the previous year, equate to "a slow decay"?
Also: Apple didn't create the smartphone market. RIM/BB, MS/WM, Nokia/Symbian, and SE/Symbian were all around before the iPhone.
They created the current app-based/touchscreen smartphone benchmark that is ubiquitous now. RIM, MS and Nokia were significant players in the old market, but they failed to adapt to the new benchmark set by Apple, hence their falling profits and failing devices/OSs.
Apple however is now clearly in decay compared to Android. They are losing marketshare and sales have not been increasing as quickly as the industry has been expecting, most notably during the iPhone 5 launch which only marginally sold more than its predecessor on launch day.
Only because Apple's top model sales were split between 2 models in Q3 due to the iPhone 5 launch.
From the article you linked to:
We expect the new iPhone 5 to out-ship Samsung’s Galaxy S3 in the coming fourth quarter of 2012 and Apple should soon reclaim the title of the world’s most popular smartphone model.
Q4 analysis should be available soon.
Yes, the Android boys really are clutching at straws here
They created the current app-based/touchscreen smartphone benchmark that is ubiquitous now. RIM, MS and Nokia were significant players in the old market, but they failed to adapt to the new benchmark set by Apple, hence their falling profits and failing devices/OSs.
Apple however is now clearly in decay compared to Android. They are losing marketshare and sales have not been increasing as quickly as the industry has been expecting, most notably during the iPhone 5 launch which only marginally sold more than its predecessor on launch day.
Regarding smartphones. Microsoft failed to develop Windows Mobile and left it to die. They tried to claw back the market with Windows Phone.
Nokia had Symbian but much like MS failed to capitalises on it properly. Shifting from burning platform to burning platform.
RIM did well in the niche market but has come unstuck when going after the consumer market as has failed to keep up.
Apple certainly gave the mobile market a much needed kick up the arse. They need to as more people were using their phone as a music and video player which had been one of Apples main markets for its iPods which was under threat. They saw the need to change and succeeded. However Apple have sat on their laurels and spent more time and energy on suing their competitors in an attempt to put them out of business instead of innovating.
Yes, the Android boys really are clutching at straws here
Careful now! Remember, there are no Android fanboys or Apple haters at DS, no no none at all, just lots and lots of crazy Apple fanboys who constantly berate the poor downtrodden Android users of DS :rolleyes:
Only because Apple's top model sales were split between 2 models in Q3 due to the iPhone 5 launch.
From the article you linked to:
We expect the new iPhone 5 to out-ship Samsung’s Galaxy S3 in the coming fourth quarter of 2012 and Apple should soon reclaim the title of the world’s most popular smartphone model.
Q4 analysis should be available soon.
I would expect that the iPhone has already out sold the S3 by some margin. Didn't the iPhone 5 sell 5 million in it's first day/weekend. People still seen to be going gaga over apple products.
Which is correct. Had I said 'of all time' or 'ever' then you may be valid. The Galaxy S3 had the biggest worldwide shipments of any shipping mobile device in Q3 this year. That currently makes it the world's most popular smartphone. There is nothing to dispute.
The only thing to dispute is the fact that the specific quarter selected is the one in which everyone was holding off buying an iPhone because it was an open secret an iphone 5 was imminent. You have to be pretty thick or just plain obtuse to not see that that is the reason for a temporary Samsung market share advantage.
Samsung arguably has way more competition seeing as though they have to compete with the flagships from other Android OEMs, so that argument doesn't really hold up. The Galaxy range is now massively popular, and I expect that Apple will struggle to maintain a quarterly lead next year when the S4 is launched.
What a strange argument. Apple have exactly the same competition.
'most popular' is normally considered to be within a certain period otherwise we would be describing the current most popular music as Brian Adams or The Beatles - hey they sold loads and are still on sale therefore they must be the most popular
Having said that im not going to say whether a day, week, month, quarter or year is the most sensible measure as someone will disagree with whatever I say
I'm not being obtuse at all. I took the statement the poster made and showed it wasn't the most popular. An attempt was then made to redefine the criteria and quite frankly at that point I just started laughing as why people can't admit they were wrong is beyond me.
However, if we take those Q3 results as that is the ones everyone wants to hang their hopes on.
Q3 was 91 days long and there were 18m S3 sales = 197,892 per day
The iPhone 5 (released on the 21st September) sold 6m in 9 days = 666,666 per day.
You understand what I'm saying perfectly surely. That if they only sold the s3 they would sell more s3's because some of the s3 sales are lost to their other products. A different situation to apple.
What possible reason could you have for pretending to not understand something so simple?
If they sold less phones, apple would also gain sales, why do you think they wouldn't?
I think they just have an inability to accept Apple as in a compromised position. It's fairly obvious that the S3 would be even more successful if Samsung Mobile only had that one device to spend the entire budget on, but Samsung prefer choice and adapting to consumer choice.
It's actually ironic that that poster is suggesting that Samsung have their 'product strategy wrong' considering it is Apple who has failed to adapt their model based on past mistakes. This whole Android vs. iOS is panning out exactly like Windows vs. Mac. Apple are finding out that they are on a slow decay. Android already controls the smartphone market, but I was simply remarking that it is incredible that one Android device is now capable of outselling the iPhone despite Apple's head start. They may have created the market, but as with past scenarios, their model means that they are almost always unable to sustain a lead within that market.
I didn't. Your inability to follow what has been said and to continue to misquote facts is the only thing ironic.
I'm not being obtuse at all. I took the statement the poster made and showed it wasn't the most popular. An attempt was then made to redefine the criteria and quite frankly at that point I just started laughing as why people can't admit they were wrong is beyond me.
However, if we take those Q3 results as that is the ones everyone wants to hang their hopes on.E
Q3 was 91 days long and there were 18m S3 sales = 197,892 per day
The iPhone 5 (released on the 21st September) sold 6m in 9 days = 666,666 per day.
It is clear, the iPhone was far more popular.
See, playing with the numbers is easy:)
I wasn't debating your outcome just your argument about time frames.
Personally I think that the galaxy s fanboys are becoming almost as rabid as the apple ones.
IMO the iPad mini is much better than the N7 (I have both and rarely touch the N7 because the mini is so much nicer to use) This of course is only my opinion but I would hardly call the mini a desperate attempt. Also, not sure how you (or anyone) are qualified to make the second half of that comment when no one outside Apple even knows whether there will be such a device and secondly what it will look like.
The iPad Mini could be seen in some quarters as cashing in on the success of a smaller tablet which, as we know, goes completely against the edicts of the dearly departed Saint Steve.
Personally speaking, its a free market and technology companies should make what they want.
The iPad Mini could be seen in some quarters as cashing in on the success of a smaller tablet which, as we know, goes completely against the edicts of the dearly departed Saint Steve.
Personally speaking, its a free market and technology companies should make what they want.
the interesting thing with the iPad mini really, as you suggest, it was a reaction to the google and amazon tablets.
previously, iPod, iPhone, iPad has been about apple anticipating consumer demand and carving out a space, first time they have been forced to react.
and now we see that things like the galaxy note 2 are apparently flying off the shelves, especially in asia, (where the different alphabets work well with the big screen,) so apple who don't even have a hand set that works on China Mobile with it's 700m subscribers, are being forced to react again.
what's worse is the iPhone is not really competitive. imagine that they actually have to improve it to sell it in emerging markets. it was unthinkable even just two years ago.
Great post. We have seen useful features we take for granted in Android being incorporated into iOS (pull down notification for instance) and we have seen more and more people sticking two fingers up at that rapidly dwindling number who think its normal to point and laugh at people using larger screened phones than the ones with a screen size determined and laid down in law by you know who.
How do a higher marketshare than the same quarter the previous year, and a higher number of sales than the same quarter the previous year, equate to "a slow decay"?
Yes, the Android boys really are clutching at straws here
Dear me android people ... them ...they ... all very strange terminology being used.......... I would imagine in the Apple utopia we would all be lined up and shot for being such.... or sent out to the desert with just apple maps to guide us.
You see when it comes to figures and stats you have to think a little deeper than just the headline. WM has doubled their market share but ask yourself whether they would be happy with these figures showing a huge percentage increase in worldwide sales. The same answer will apply to apples feelings about the current trend in their figures.
Apple utopia? You seem to be the one with the "strange terminology".
You keep saying that Apple is "doomed" etc., and also have said that iPhone sales are falling.
I have pointed out that they are not falling: they increased compared to the same quarter in the previous year, as did the marketshare.
I haven't "only thought as deep as the headline" - I have posted links to reports containing actual numbers in them (e.g. the IDC report), numbers showing that sales and share increased year-on-year.
If actual sales figures cannot be taken at "face value", then what can, especially when discussing sales and how well as product is doing?
On what have you based your claim that sales are falling? Do you know something that IDC and others do not? Do you believe that Apple has been lying in its quarterly results?
How and why do you think that Apple is "doomed"? How is "the writing on the wall"?
my point exactly ... you have taken them purely at face value I am afraid any company which did that would not last 5 minutes.
You see there are many variables in a market and a small increase in actual numbers sold tells very little of the actual tale.
Have you increased sales in relation to your major competitor?
Are there factors such as the collapse of competitors that won't be repeated year on year a factor have you capitalised upon that?
Has sales forecasts of your new product had to be cut?
Are your cheaper models selling better than expected?
Have you had to release a product to compete, that previously was dismissed?
etc etc
Apple in essence has seen a small increase with the near removal of BB, symbian etc from the market. if you think Apple are pleased with the current position I am afraid you are very wrong.
Comments
I think they just have an inability to accept Apple as in a compromised position. It's fairly obvious that the S3 would be even more successful if Samsung Mobile only had that one device to spend the entire budget on, but Samsung prefer choice and adapting to consumer choice.
It's actually ironic that that poster is suggesting that Samsung have their 'product strategy wrong' considering it is Apple who has failed to adapt their model based on past mistakes. This whole Android vs. iOS is panning out exactly like Windows vs. Mac. Apple are finding out that they are on a slow decay. Android already controls the smartphone market, but I was simply remarking that it is incredible that one Android device is now capable of outselling the iPhone despite Apple's head start. They may have created the market, but as with past scenarios, their model means that they are almost always unable to sustain a lead within that market.
you might just be being a little obtuse here
'most popular' is normally considered to be within a certain period otherwise we would be describing the current most popular music as Brian Adams or The Beatles - hey they sold loads and are still on sale therefore they must be the most popular
Having said that im not going to say whether a day, week, month, quarter or year is the most sensible measure as someone will disagree with whatever I say
How do a higher marketshare than the same quarter the previous year, and a higher number of sales than the same quarter the previous year, equate to "a slow decay"?
http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS23771812#.UO36jYnKdFS
http://9to5google.com/2012/10/26/samsung-ships-record-47-million-smartphones-globally-in-q3/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+9to5Google+%289to5+Google+-+Beyond+Good+and+Evil%29
Also: Apple didn't create the smartphone market. RIM/BB, MS/WM, Nokia/Symbian, and SE/Symbian were all around before the iPhone.
They created the current app-based/touchscreen smartphone benchmark that is ubiquitous now. RIM, MS and Nokia were significant players in the old market, but they failed to adapt to the new benchmark set by Apple, hence their falling profits and failing devices/OSs.
Apple however is now clearly in decay compared to Android. They are losing marketshare and sales have not been increasing as quickly as the industry has been expecting, most notably during the iPhone 5 launch which only marginally sold more than its predecessor on launch day.
Try the links I posted, from the most recent quarterly results.
Although not as high as Samsung or Android's increase, Apple's share *has* also increased, as well as sales increasing.
How is it "in decay", if sales and share have increased?
Looks like a simple case of adding the two quarters together...
Yes, the Android boys really are clutching at straws here
Regarding smartphones. Microsoft failed to develop Windows Mobile and left it to die. They tried to claw back the market with Windows Phone.
Nokia had Symbian but much like MS failed to capitalises on it properly. Shifting from burning platform to burning platform.
RIM did well in the niche market but has come unstuck when going after the consumer market as has failed to keep up.
Apple certainly gave the mobile market a much needed kick up the arse. They need to as more people were using their phone as a music and video player which had been one of Apples main markets for its iPods which was under threat. They saw the need to change and succeeded. However Apple have sat on their laurels and spent more time and energy on suing their competitors in an attempt to put them out of business instead of innovating.
Careful now! Remember, there are no Android fanboys or Apple haters at DS, no no none at all, just lots and lots of crazy Apple fanboys who constantly berate the poor downtrodden Android users of DS :rolleyes:
I would expect that the iPhone has already out sold the S3 by some margin. Didn't the iPhone 5 sell 5 million in it's first day/weekend. People still seen to be going gaga over apple products.
The only thing to dispute is the fact that the specific quarter selected is the one in which everyone was holding off buying an iPhone because it was an open secret an iphone 5 was imminent. You have to be pretty thick or just plain obtuse to not see that that is the reason for a temporary Samsung market share advantage.
What a strange argument. Apple have exactly the same competition.
I'm not being obtuse at all. I took the statement the poster made and showed it wasn't the most popular. An attempt was then made to redefine the criteria and quite frankly at that point I just started laughing as why people can't admit they were wrong is beyond me.
However, if we take those Q3 results as that is the ones everyone wants to hang their hopes on.
Q3 was 91 days long and there were 18m S3 sales = 197,892 per day
The iPhone 5 (released on the 21st September) sold 6m in 9 days = 666,666 per day.
It is clear, the iPhone was far more popular.
See, playing with the numbers is easy:)
If they sold less phones, apple would also gain sales, why do you think they wouldn't?
I didn't. Your inability to follow what has been said and to continue to misquote facts is the only thing ironic.
I wasn't debating your outcome just your argument about time frames.
Personally I think that the galaxy s fanboys are becoming almost as rabid as the apple ones.
The iPad Mini could be seen in some quarters as cashing in on the success of a smaller tablet which, as we know, goes completely against the edicts of the dearly departed Saint Steve.
Personally speaking, its a free market and technology companies should make what they want.
the interesting thing with the iPad mini really, as you suggest, it was a reaction to the google and amazon tablets.
previously, iPod, iPhone, iPad has been about apple anticipating consumer demand and carving out a space, first time they have been forced to react.
and now we see that things like the galaxy note 2 are apparently flying off the shelves, especially in asia, (where the different alphabets work well with the big screen,) so apple who don't even have a hand set that works on China Mobile with it's 700m subscribers, are being forced to react again.
what's worse is the iPhone is not really competitive. imagine that they actually have to improve it to sell it in emerging markets. it was unthinkable even just two years ago.
Dear me android people ... them ...they ... all very strange terminology being used.......... I would imagine in the Apple utopia we would all be lined up and shot for being such.... or sent out to the desert with just apple maps to guide us.
You see when it comes to figures and stats you have to think a little deeper than just the headline. WM has doubled their market share but ask yourself whether they would be happy with these figures showing a huge percentage increase in worldwide sales. The same answer will apply to apples feelings about the current trend in their figures.
Don't take all the figures you see at face value.
You keep saying that Apple is "doomed" etc., and also have said that iPhone sales are falling.
I have pointed out that they are not falling: they increased compared to the same quarter in the previous year, as did the marketshare.
I haven't "only thought as deep as the headline" - I have posted links to reports containing actual numbers in them (e.g. the IDC report), numbers showing that sales and share increased year-on-year.
If actual sales figures cannot be taken at "face value", then what can, especially when discussing sales and how well as product is doing?
On what have you based your claim that sales are falling? Do you know something that IDC and others do not? Do you believe that Apple has been lying in its quarterly results?
How and why do you think that Apple is "doomed"? How is "the writing on the wall"?
You see there are many variables in a market and a small increase in actual numbers sold tells very little of the actual tale.
Have you increased sales in relation to your major competitor?
Are there factors such as the collapse of competitors that won't be repeated year on year a factor have you capitalised upon that?
Has sales forecasts of your new product had to be cut?
Are your cheaper models selling better than expected?
Have you had to release a product to compete, that previously was dismissed?
etc etc
Apple in essence has seen a small increase with the near removal of BB, symbian etc from the market. if you think Apple are pleased with the current position I am afraid you are very wrong.
Interestingly its not going to be particularly cheap!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/20/cheap_iphone_is_actually_going_to_be_pricey_chinese_manufacturer_warns/