Lately, I feel the desire to defend S5, which has to be my favourite series so far. I really liked the theme of the series, which seemed to me to be what people will do for love. So many characters were doing things they didn’t want to do for someone they loved. Case in point:
Dr. Dibbs – she was happy being a nurse, but gave it up to become a doctor for her husband
Joe P – trying everything he can to get Maggie to love him again
LG – accepts DM back into her life almost immediately, even agreeing to move to London to be with him and their new family; later she forgives her mother over and over again to try and rebuild that relationship
Sally – takes a ridiculous concoction of drugs to make herself noticeable to the man she loves
Al – almost loses his job and gets tangled with loan sharks trying to save his dad
A host of other characters doing things for people the thing they love – Michael allowing Ruth in (a bit) to help his Mom, the funeral parlour kid making himself sick for a girlfriend, right down to the cat lady and her antics for her cats.
I think what I liked about it is that when you try and are false to who you are, it ends badly (see Dr. Dibbs, Joe or Sally). The honeymooning-couple at the end were clearly willing to do anything for each other and were blissfully happy. You also get to see what happens when you are unwilling. Mr. Coley didn’t stop working and spend more time with his wife and now lives a lonely existence in a garden shed. The “villain” of the series was Eleanor who couldn't be bothered doing anything for other people. She uses Chippy almost to death for her business; she can’t even babysit her grandson for a morning to help her daughter. When it’s obvious even to her how selfish she is, she leaves, giving up any remaining chance of being a part of LG’s or JH’s life.
E8 is where it’s time for DM to decide what he’s willing to do. In his case, it’s to reject science and go with “feelings”. His mind has to be telling him that the right thing to do at the castle is listen to Ruth who has years of experience dealing with lunatics and probably dozens of case studies to prove her point. On the other hand he has a primary school teacher and her “gut feeling”. He decided that what he can do for LG is trust her judgment. And for him, this also meant finally expressing his feelings and admitting to LG, albeit in a weird made-for-TV way, how he felt about her. He’s willing to give up his vision of their future (London with JH in a top prep school) for hers (PW with JH attending the same school his mother did).
I admit, I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic, so I may be reading a bit much into it. But, it’s made me love S5 and so ready for S6.
Lately, I feel the desire to defend S5, which has to be my favourite series so far. I really liked the theme of the series, which seemed to me to be what people will do for love. So many characters were doing things they didn’t want to do for someone they loved. Case in point:
Dr. Dibbs – she was happy being a nurse, but gave it up to become a doctor for her husband
Joe P – trying everything he can to get Maggie to love him again
LG – accepts DM back into her life almost immediately, even agreeing to move to London to be with him and their new family; later she forgives her mother over and over again to try and rebuild that relationship
Sally – takes a ridiculous concoction of drugs to make herself noticeable to the man she loves
Al – almost loses his job and gets tangled with loan sharks trying to save his dad
A host of other characters doing things for people the thing they love – Michael allowing Ruth in (a bit) to help his Mom, the funeral parlour kid making himself sick for a girlfriend, right down to the cat lady and her antics for her cats.
I think what I liked about it is that when you try and are false to who you are, it ends badly (see Dr. Dibbs, Joe or Sally). The honeymooning-couple at the end were clearly willing to do anything for each other and were blissfully happy. You also get to see what happens when you are unwilling. Mr. Coley didn’t stop working and spend more time with his wife and now lives a lonely existence in a garden shed. The “villain” of the series was Eleanor who couldn't be bothered doing anything for other people. She uses Chippy almost to death for her business; she can’t even babysit her grandson for a morning to help her daughter. When it’s obvious even to her how selfish she is, she leaves, giving up any remaining chance of being a part of LG’s or JH’s life.
E8 is where it’s time for DM to decide what he’s willing to do. In his case, it’s to reject science and go with “feelings”. His mind has to be telling him that the right thing to do at the castle is listen to Ruth who has years of experience dealing with lunatics and probably dozens of case studies to prove her point. On the other hand he has a primary school teacher and her “gut feeling”. He decided that what he can do for LG is trust her judgment. And for him, this also meant finally expressing his feelings and admitting to LG, albeit in a weird made-for-TV way, how he felt about her. He’s willing to give up his vision of their future (London with JH in a top prep school) for hers (PW with JH attending the same school his mother did).
I admit, I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic, so I may be reading a bit much into it. But, it’s made me love S5 and so ready for S6.
Mazzie, good description of last season. My feeling is that Doc really loves Port Wenn and I see him remaining there with the family he has there now, his aunt, his wife(hopefully) and his son. If you notice he often looks purposely at the harbor as he's drinking his morning coffee, as he walks through town, just always seems to have an affection for his early childhood vacation place. I think a good solution for him missing the only thing he felt like he was good at is to be a part time surgeon in Truro. That way he can still be the town's doc but also use his surgeon skills if he desires. This would also leave the door open for another season in the future though I guess that's wishful thinking.
His expectation that she will leave him is unconscious. In the example of when she leaves in season 5, I agree he is confused and surprised, because he has been working very hard to be a good father and partner. He just doesn't know how to do that. But as you said, he is immediately resigned to her leaving. Why would that be if he didn't think think he deserved it and that she was right to leave?
One thing that particularly annoys me through season 5 is the lack of acknowledgement of how much Martin is doing to help with James. Particularly Louisa who does not defend him to her mother. His perfect little world has been completely disrupted. She breaks the espresso machine and the venetian tumbler and he does not get angry with her. He is expressing his love through his actions even if not vocalizing it.
I think these are really pivotal points in trying to figure out what is going on with Martin -- why he appears to be so vacillating, with-holding, torn and sometimes desperate. And we need to do that, b/c otherwise it's just an exercise in seeing how long the "will they, won't they" gambit will keep viewers attention.
The producers have made it quite clear to us that Martin grew up with unloving, in fact actively hateful, parents. A child in that situation usually internalizes a strong sense that he is unlovable, and cannot please people who matter to him. Martin took refuge in a biting intellect and skill in surgery. In the conversation with Joan, when he told her he was leaving and she chided him for not taking on the parent role, he said he "wouldn't be good at all that." Sure, he wanted to be reassured at that moment, but I do think there is/was a large part of him that truly believes that he isn't good at being in a loving relationship, that his efforts are doomed to end up making everybody miserable. He just doesn't believe he has anything to offer. I think he is largely in denial of the strength of his own desire for love and connection, because he can't believe he can achieve it. Every once in a while, when truly desperate, he is able to reach out for what he wants and what he feels slipping away -- but when the intellectualizing part takes over again, he regresses.
Louisa is amazingly patient with him, but I have always thought that she cannot in the end tolerate his inability to connect with her (or to sustain his connection with her) in an intimate way -- even though she does know, I think, that he loves her, and he tries to show it to her in many ways that don't actually require him to be intimate. So being patient with her messiness and caring for the baby is not sufficient, if he can't actually acknowledge to her how much he loves her. At least for Louisa -- and I'm not sure it would be for me, either.
Good morning DM and NewPark,
Yes DM, I agree with your view of Martin being unconscious and it's good that you bring this up since are we not all unconscious (to varying degrees) of our motives most of the time? But I wonder about the idea of Martin thinking he deserves what happens to him. Perhaps this is just a matter of semantics, but I'm wonder if NewPark's view regarding belief is maybe closer to the mark? Or perhaps we could say, "He doesn't believe he deserves love and affection." I just feel that if Martin had a blinding flash of insight, he would not move toward the idea of deserve. It would be what he believes to be true.
It seems that many viewers are confused and frustrated with what went on in Series 5. Like you, DM, I was particularly annoyed with Louisa on many occasions. She seems almost oblivious to the fact that Martin has accommodated her in so many ways. And although, as you say NewPark, she will only go so far with his inability to be intimate, she does know what she is up against with this man! Perhaps her failure in Series 5 could be due to the pressures of having a new baby. After all, look what she is up against: all the emotions of being a new mother; getting used to nursing and losing sleep; adjustment to a new living arrangement; living with Martin for the first time; and then starting her job again! (All within a period of about 2 months?) That said, I have always wondered why the writers didn't explore (or progress) the relationship in regard to Martin and Louisa sleeping together. After all, they were in bed together every night! But not so much as a good-night kiss, a head on a shoulder, holding hands even. Perhaps the idea was that Martin was being very respectful and giving Louisa what she needed/wanted/required? But here we are back again with Martin accommodating Louisa. Any thoughts?
Shop Girl, in her last post, mentions that Martin at this time will still be grieving for Auntie Joan. I had forgotten that and it is extremely important. So here we have these two imperfect people thrown together under extreme circumstances. I suppose the result isn't so surprising, but I still would have liked to see Louisa try harder.
Just wondering - haven't seen any activity for a while.
I've been reading the posts when I can, just haven't had time to comment or even think about much of anything else. I'm so tired and feel like I have run over by a truck. I was doing 8 hour turnarounds last week, I have a four hour turnaround this week. This is the first true day off I've had in three weeks.
We are converting to a new system and that is always tons of work. First you have to gut the room and reconfigure it for the new system work environment which means that you have to carefully move the old system to a temporary location while keeping it operational and install the new. The old system is grumpy and doesn't like being moved. An extra bonus feature is that as you dismantle the old system to accommodate the new some very squirrely things happen so you have to deal with those on top of everything else.
At the same time we have to duplicate and push everything over to the new system and manually double check it all to make sure it is what it is supposed to be-it is petabytes of files. Then we go through another round of training then shadow the old system with the new to ensure the new system is working properly. It never does so you have to figure out what is wrong and try to fix it. None of them are truly designed to do what we use them for, either, so we have to figure out a way to do what we need to do with the new system. Think square peg/round hole. We have managed to pound most of the pegs into the holes-it ain't pretty but they work.
I've been reading the posts when I can, just haven't had time to comment or even think about much of anything else. I'm so tired and feel like I have run over by a truck. I was doing 8 hour turnarounds last week, I have a four hour turnaround this week. This is the first true day off I've had in three weeks.
We are converting to a new system and that is always tons of work. First you have to gut the room and reconfigure it for the new system work environment which means that you have to carefully move the old system to a temporary location while keeping it operational and install the new. The old system is grumpy and doesn't like being moved. An extra bonus feature is that as you dismantle the old system to accommodate the new some very squirrely things happen so you have to deal with those on top of everything else.
At the same time we have to duplicate and push everything over to the new system and manually double check it all to make sure it is what it is supposed to be-it is petabytes of files. Then we go through another round of training then shadow the old system with the new to ensure the new system is working properly. It never does so you have to figure out what is wrong and try to fix it. None of them are truly designed to do what we use them for, either, so we have to figure out a way to do what we need to do with the new system. Think square peg/round hole. We have managed to pound most of the pegs into the holes-it ain't pretty but they work.
Another shining example of giving up what you love for what you must do. So glad those days are behind me. Glad to hear from you though ...
Continuing OT on Campbell: Somehow when I think of Campbell, Jung comes to mind and since I am definitely not a fan of Karl Jung, I am also suspicious of Campbell. But he has had great influence and I keep promising myself to read enough of him to see what the fuss is about.
I am very much a fan of Jung. That said, I believe that Campbell took ideas from Jung re the unconscious and archetypes, etc. He also visited Jung briefly but I have yet to find out what happened at that meeting. (There is a You Tube reference to this that cuts out just as we are going to be told what Jung said to Campbell.) Yes, it seems that Campbell did have great influence, but is now in disrepute in many circles. I feel that I should research him as well, but I'm so overwhelmed with work that it is difficult to find the time.
Yes DM, I agree with your view of Martin being unconscious and it's good that you bring this up since are we not all unconscious (to varying degrees) of our motives most of the time? But I wonder about the idea of Martin thinking he deserves what happens to him. Perhaps this is just a matter of semantics, but I'm wonder if NewPark's view regarding belief is maybe closer to the mark? Or perhaps we could say, "He doesn't believe he deserves love and affection." I just feel that if Martin had a blinding flash of insight, he would not move toward the idea of deserve. It would be what he believes to be true.
It seems that many viewers are confused and frustrated with what went on in Series 5. Like you, DM, I was particularly annoyed with Louisa on many occasions. She seems almost oblivious to the fact that Martin has accommodated her in so many ways. And although, as you say NewPark, she will only go so far with his inability to be intimate, she does know what she is up against with this man! Perhaps her failure in Series 5 could be due to the pressures of having a new baby. After all, look what she is up against: all the emotions of being a new mother; getting used to nursing and losing sleep; adjustment to a new living arrangement; living with Martin for the first time; and then starting her job again! (All within a period of about 2 months?) That said, I have always wondered why the writers didn't explore (or progress) the relationship in regard to Martin and Louisa sleeping together. After all, they were in bed together every night! But not so much as a good-night kiss, a head on a shoulder, holding hands even. Perhaps the idea was that Martin was being very respectful and giving Louisa what she needed/wanted/required? But here we are back again with Martin accommodating Louisa. Any thoughts?
Shop Girl, in her last post, mentions that Martin at this time will still be grieving for Auntie Joan. I had forgotten that and it is extremely important. So here we have these two imperfect people thrown together under extreme circumstances. I suppose the result isn't so surprising, but I still would have liked to see Louisa try harder.
It seems to me that a majority of commentors would like to see Louisa try harder. But then again, we have to remember that Doc Martin is the name of the show (not "Louisa the Teacher") and that it is his hero's journey that we are following.
And although we usually are willing to cut LG some slack - new mum, back to work too early, lousy parents, we want her to cut him some slack also. He never hid his imperfections from her and she pursued him anyway. He was willing to stay in the background nourishing his school boy crush but Louisa was always about moving things forward.
I look forward to some adult relationship between them - but really, with what they have to work with it cannot suddenly be stable, giving, nurturing, romantic, etcetera, etcetera. We will all just have to accept the dysfunctionality, look for the humor and the silver lining (Martin Clunes), and deal with the story they tell us.
It seems to me that a majority of commentors would like to see Louisa try harder. But then again, we have to remember that Doc Martin is the name of the show (not "Louisa the Teacher") and that it is his hero's journey that we are following.
And although we usually are willing to cut LG some slack - new mum, back to work too early, lousy parents, we want her to cut him some slack also. He never hid his imperfections from her and she pursued him anyway. He was willing to stay in the background nourishing his school boy crush but Louisa was always about moving things forward.
I look forward to some adult relationship between them - but really, with what they have to work with it cannot suddenly be stable, giving, nurturing, romantic, etcetera, etcetera. We will all just have to accept the dysfunctionality, look for the humor and the silver lining (Martin Clunes), and deal with the story they tell us.
Personally I don't want LG to "try harder" but I would like the writers to show her motivation more so we can understand where she's coming from.
I don't think you can excuse the total lack of involvement of LGs thoughts by saying it is DMs journey. His journey involves and is shaped by those around him and the villagers.
LG does cut DM some slack by agreeing to move in with him and then to London before DM has given any indication that he really loves her.
During the search for Mrs T DM is just nasty to LG telling her not to be an idiot etc. I think, at that point, he has a long way to go before a relationship is possible.
DM said, in regard to Penhale and Maggie, that he didnt think it was romantic to force yourself on someone when they had a medical condition. I think this is the excuse they've given him in s5 not to push himself onto LG (a plot device really :rolleyes:) but I don't understand why there was so little affection between them. Didn't seem believable to me even between two people who were struggling to live together.
That said, I have always wondered why the writers didn't explore (or progress) the relationship in regard to Martin and Louisa sleeping together. After all, they were in bed together every night! But not so much as a good-night kiss, a head on a shoulder, holding hands even. Perhaps the idea was that Martin was being very respectful and giving Louisa what she needed/wanted/required? But here we are back again with Martin accommodating Louisa. Any thoughts?
Shop Girl, in her last post, mentions that Martin at this time will still be grieving for Auntie Joan. I had forgotten that and it is extremely important. So here we have these two imperfect people thrown together under extreme circumstances. I suppose the result isn't so surprising, but I still would have liked to see Louisa try harder.
I've puzzled over this too (as have we all). Because I do feel that beyond the new parents, new job, death of AJ, they might have found a few moments to show their affection.
I think any answer to why they didn't has to have at least two parts. One, the creative powers that be clearly made this choice. They wanted it to have some dramatic impact. What were they trying to achieve with this portrayal of "bed-death?" And two, what are we, the viewing audience, supposed to think or infer about the characters' reasons for keeping their distance from each other in this way? In other words, is the creative team's choice, made to achieve some dramatic end, actually plausible?
As for what the creative team had in mind: at first I thought they were doing this solely to drag the series on -- because they were worried about their audience losing interest if the relationship became obviously intimate and affectionate. They didn't want to lose the "will they - won't they" tension. Also, I think they had in mind building to another crisis in their relationship, with a dramatic resolution at the end, and I don't think they could have done this if they had made it obvious that they were (again) having sex, or at least were physically affectionate with each other and looking forward to the resumption of "marital" relations. And once they started physical intimacy, it would be hard to believe that they would have gotten themselves into such a muddle so quickly. Maybe it's an over-romantic faith in the power of sex, but I just find it hard to believe that there would have been so much umbrage taken by Louisa, or such high-handed decision-making by Martin, etc., etc., if they were growing closer to each other in that way. So they had to show them keeping their distance, of which those buttoned up pjs (so much less sexy than the t-shirt and pj bottoms of S1) are a visual sign. Not that we ever see Louisa in anything approaching slinky nighttime wear, even after a few weeks have passed. I think it's this lack of affection between them that makes their breakup after 8 weeks seem possible and the resolution at the end much more dramatic.
Sometimes I've even wondered if the growing frustration that Louisa and perhaps Martin must be feeling is meant to produce a kind of mirroring effect in the audience -- in whom frustration was building as well. That also contributes to the relief of tension at the Castle scene.
On the question of whether it's at all plausible that Martin and Louisa behave this way -- again, aside from all the newborn baby complications, AJ, etc. -- I think they're less successful in convincing us that it makes much sense. Even though we understand that sex is not on the horizon for a few weeks, surely,surely, there would have been some demonstration of affection for a couple that had hours before passionately reconciled? The best I have ever been able to come up with is that each remembered their parting scene at the wedding, and so were reluctant to press each other, or presume that they would now make each other happy (enough). Louisa was at first clearly giving him some space; Martin was, I think, just retreating back inside himself, to avoid dealing with the emotions stirred up at the end of S4. And also with the new feelings of parental love and probably also some upset with the chaotic state of his previously very orderly lifestyle.
It seems to me that a majority of commentors would like to see Louisa try harder. But then again, we have to remember that Doc Martin is the name of the show (not "Louisa the Teacher") and that it is his hero's journey that we are following.
And although we usually are willing to cut LG some slack - new mum, back to work too early, lousy parents, we want her to cut him some slack also. He never hid his imperfections from her and she pursued him anyway. He was willing to stay in the background nourishing his school boy crush but Louisa was always about moving things forward.
I look forward to some adult relationship between them - but really, with what they have to work with it cannot suddenly be stable, giving, nurturing, romantic, etcetera, etcetera. We will all just have to accept the dysfunctionality, look for the humor and the silver lining (Martin Clunes), and deal with the story they tell us.
Very amusing, besotted--Louisa the Teacher. Perhaps you are right in that I, along with others, am wanting and expecting too much too soon. And yes, it is Martin's journey, although without Louisa how would his journey progress? Her struggles are bound up with his. I am hoping for a little more of them and James Henry in the Series 6, a smidgen less of the other characters.
The one television series that I would compare with DM is Ballykissangel. It is about an English priest newly assigned to a parish in a small Irish village. The village is full of quirky characters who don't understand why they have to put up with an ENGLISH priest when they have always had an Irish one in the past (the late, great, Dr Sim perhaps?). There is a love story between two people who, on the surface, have nothing in common but can't seem to do anything about where their hearts are leading them. I loved the first 3 series, but the two main stars decided to leave at the end of series 3 and I thought the show floundered after that (no comments about how they wrote them out of the show - don't spoil it for anyone else!). It would be like if MC and CC decided to leave after the non-wedding at the end of S3 and they brought in a new doctor and the show moved on to more about Bert, Al, Pauline and other townsfolk. I lost interest pretty quickly.
Oh BallyK..(first 3 seasons)..still trying to get over that. A great show, and I watched it to carry me through the 2 years until season 6 of Doc Martin, which I now need to get over BallyK. Another show I enjoyed was Larkrise to Candleford. It was very slow moving but enjoyable. My daughter called it "that show you watch where nothing ever happens."
I look forward to some adult relationship between them - but really, with what they have to work with it cannot suddenly be stable, giving, nurturing, romantic, etcetera, etcetera. We will all just have to accept the dysfunctionality, look for the humor and the silver lining (Martin Clunes), and deal with the story they tell us.
And I think this is the kind of stuff we will see from them in S6, and if we are very, very good, S7 . I was looking at the list of episodes in Wikipedia and noticed that it included viewing figures. Interesting that every series saw the numbers rise as the series went along. And S5 had the best numbers of all. Makes me think that ITV will make it worth their while to continue to produce as many series' as they can. Check out the numbers here:
I've puzzled over this too (as have we all). Because I do feel that beyond the new parents, new job, death of AJ, they might have found a few moments to show their affection.
I think any answer to why they didn't has to have at least two parts. One, the creative powers that be clearly made this choice. They wanted it to have some dramatic impact. What were they trying to achieve with this portrayal of "bed-death?" And two, what are we, the viewing audience, supposed to think or infer about the characters' reasons for keeping their distance from each other in this way? In other words, is the creative team's choice, made to achieve some dramatic end, actually plausible?
As for what the creative team had in mind: at first I thought they were doing this solely to drag the series on -- because they were worried about their audience losing interest if the relationship became obviously intimate and affectionate. They didn't want to lose the "will they - won't they" tension. Also, I think they had in mind building to another crisis in their relationship, with a dramatic resolution at the end, and I don't think they could have done this if they had made it obvious that they were (again) having sex, or at least were physically affectionate with each other and looking forward to the resumption of "marital" relations. And once they started physical intimacy, it would be hard to believe that they would have gotten themselves into such a muddle so quickly. Maybe it's an over-romantic faith in the power of sex, but I just find it hard to believe that there would have been so much umbrage taken by Louisa, or such high-handed decision-making by Martin, etc., etc., if they were growing closer to each other in that way. So they had to show them keeping their distance, of which those buttoned up pjs (so much less sexy than the t-shirt and pj bottoms of S1) are a visual sign. Not that we ever see Louisa in anything approaching slinky nighttime wear, even after a few weeks have passed. I think it's this lack of affection between them that makes their breakup after 8 weeks seem possible and the resolution at the end much more dramatic.
Sometimes I've even wondered if the growing frustration that Louisa and perhaps Martin must be feeling is meant to produce a kind of mirroring effect in the audience -- in whom frustration was building as well. That also contributes to the relief of tension at the Castle scene.
On the question of whether it's at all plausible that Martin and Louisa behave this way -- again, aside from all the newborn baby complications, AJ, etc. -- I think they're less successful in convincing us that it makes much sense. Even though we understand that sex is not on the horizon for a few weeks, surely,surely, there would have been some demonstration of affection for a couple that had hours before passionately reconciled? The best I have ever been able to come up with is that each remembered their parting scene at the wedding, and so were reluctant to press each other, or presume that they would now make each other happy (enough). Louisa was at first clearly giving him some space; Martin was, I think, just retreating back inside himself, to avoid dealing with the emotions stirred up at the end of S4. And also with the new feelings of parental love and probably also some upset with the chaotic state of his previously very orderly lifestyle.
I feel that this is a really excellent analysis, NewPark! These points have been nagging at me since the beginning of Series 5. Yes, perhaps if there had been even suggested intimacy, the break-up and reconciliation would not really have been believable. And as you say, from the point of view of drama, the writers are probably manipulating us; but if we're looking for verisimilitude, their behaviour is very unlikely. (For example, thinking of the scene where Louisa says she wants to go and live with him in London, could she not have at least made some tiny gesture of affection?)
A lady on FB ran into him at the local co-op. He made a fuss over her dog. Here's her latest post.
'Hi yes the co-op is a grocery store, and he was immaculately dressed. Looking extremely thin and yes ladies, he sounded just as he does on TV. I called out "Mr Clunes and he looked up and said hi. I walked my dog over to his very nice BMW and he was lovely to my cocker spaniel Willow who reminded him of his Mary. He asked if we were having a lovely time and I said I expect he was busy working. Can't believe that I said to him my children had just pranked me by saying the dog had pooped in the trunk. Gosh the things you say when you are star struck. Mind you the children had really said that. I'm sure he went home and said he met a really cute dog with a strange lady !!! I thanked him fir his time and he said no problem and off we all drove. Minus photo. Argggh...'
And this:
' Can't get over how skinny he is now. But very tanned. We saw Aunty Ruth a couple of days ago and she looked very frail. I brushed shoulders with Louisa as we passed each other in a vey skinny Dolphin Street, she was rushing off But again I didn't like to hassle. Did get photos of Pc Penhale. I don't seem to have right to post pics or start status on hear though.'
A lady on FB ran into him at the local co-op. He made a fuss over her dog. Here's her latest post.
'Hi yes the co-op is a grocery store, and he was immaculately dressed. Looking extremely thin and yes ladies, he sounded just as he does on TV. I called out "Mr Clunes and he looked up and said hi. I walked my dog over to his very nice BMW and he was lovely to my cocker spaniel Willow who reminded him of his Mary. He asked if we were having a lovely time and I said I expect he was busy working. Can't believe that I said to him my children had just pranked me by saying the dog had pooped in the trunk. Gosh the things you say when you are star struck. Mind you the children had really said that. I'm sure he went home and said he met a really cute dog with a strange lady !!! I thanked him fir his time and he said no problem and off we all drove. Minus photo. Argggh...'
And this:
' Can't get over how skinny he is now. But very tanned. We saw Aunty Ruth a couple of days ago and she looked very frail. I brushed shoulders with Louisa as we passed each other in a vey skinny Dolphin Street, she was rushing off But again I didn't like to hassle. Did get photos of Pc Penhale. I don't seem to have right to post pics or start status on hear though.'
This is so funny and sweet. If I could even speak at all in that situation, I'm sure I would blurt out something just as inappropriate.
Where do you think she met him and his BMW? In Beaminster or Port Isaac.
Why can’t we like Doc Martin for what it is instead of always looking to change it. Are we all Louisas?
I watch because the writing, the stories and the acting is superb. When I am disappointed I don’t think about how they could/should have made it different. I wonder what will happen next.
Changes like many suggest would make it very like any and every other program. I truly want it to be different and to stand out by itself.
Perhaps Dominic Minghella said that DM and LG would never get together because the original vision was NOT a love story. It was indeed the journey of DM – ALL of his life. And now the love story has taken center stage especially with the baby.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the love story, and I really enjoy the interaction of DM and JH. It is a wonderful turn-around for a character as damaged as DM to find that deep love. But it was disappointing to see that some British fans fell off the grid because the story did not turn out as they wanted. I am going to hang in there and hope for a better story and ending than W&M but more than anything, I want the team to live up to the standards they have set for our hero.
Why can’t we like Doc Martin for what it is instead of always looking to change it. Are we all Louisas?
I watch because the writing, the stories and the acting is superb. When I am disappointed I don’t think about how they could/should have made it different. I wonder what will happen next.
Changes like many suggest would make it very like any and every other program. I truly want it to be different and to stand out by itself.
Perhaps Dominic Minghella said that DM and LG would never get together because the original vision was NOT a love story. It was indeed the journey of DM – ALL of his life. And now the love story has taken center stage especially with the baby.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the love story, and I really enjoy the interaction of DM and JH. It is a wonderful turn-around for a character as damaged as DM to find that deep love. But it was disappointing to see that some British fans fell off the grid because the story did not turn out as they wanted. I am going to hang in there and hope for a better story and ending than W&M but more than anything, I want the team to live up to the standards they have set for our hero.
Very interesting point dmbesotted. IF the original vision was a journey of DM, of which the attraction to Louisa was just one element and was not intended to take center stage -- then it runs smack up against another stated vision of MC;s -- that DM never be seen to be changed, or :"healed" in any way. But you can't have both, because if DM never learns anything and the love story stays more or less peripheral and never goes anywhere, then you have stasis, dependent on the medical crisis or oddball local of the week.
I think it was probably the fan response that led to the love story becoming more central, to a degree that wasn't initially anticipated, and now you have a situation where DM doesn't change or soften much (except in the last few minutes of a season) and the love story gets ever more central and fraught. So yes, I think it may have become a bit unbalanced in straying from the original vision of DM on some kind of journey (if that was what was intended). But I agree, now we take it for what it is, and enjoy the wonderful writing, acting, production, etc. and hope and trust that S6 (and S7) will have just as much to offer as S1-5.
S5-E1: the newborn baby is crying. Louisa says, "No, no, sorry Martin, if someone cries you give them a cuddle." She leaps from the bed and picks up the baby, who calms down almost immediately. Martin glowers from the bed.
That is why Louisa is so important to Martin: she is there to cuddle him, for this is a man who has cried out, silently, his whole life.
A lady on FB ran into him at the local co-op. He made a fuss over her dog. Here's her latest post.
'Hi yes the co-op is a grocery store, and he was immaculately dressed. Looking extremely thin and yes ladies, he sounded just as he does on TV. I called out "Mr Clunes and he looked up and said hi. I walked my dog over to his very nice BMW and he was lovely to my cocker spaniel Willow who reminded him of his Mary. He asked if we were having a lovely time and I said I expect he was busy working. Can't believe that I said to him my children had just pranked me by saying the dog had pooped in the trunk. Gosh the things you say when you are star struck. Mind you the children had really said that. I'm sure he went home and said he met a really cute dog with a strange lady !!! I thanked him fir his time and he said no problem and off we all drove. Minus photo. Argggh...'
And this:
' Can't get over how skinny he is now. But very tanned. We saw Aunty Ruth a couple of days ago and she looked very frail. I brushed shoulders with Louisa as we passed each other in a vey skinny Dolphin Street, she was rushing off But again I didn't like to hassle. Did get photos of Pc Penhale. I don't seem to have right to post pics or start status on hear though.'
Wow! What a lucky ducky! Are both of these posts from the same person (I looked at FB and couldn't find these -- I was hoping for more questions and hence more info).
I know that this maybe a bit of a superficial reading of S5, but I didn't see big character changes for either of them. I think they were just incredibly unprepared, unorganized, sleep-deprived first time parents. On top of that was the looming move to London to fulfill the contract and temporarily living in a home filled with someone else's "stuff". Plus, even though he would never show it, Martin had to be dealing with the grief of AJ's death - she was a very important part of his life.
Good points, Shop Girl. For some reason I recently rewatched the bonus material on the S5 DVD. MC made a point that the Doc is "reeling" in S5. He's unexpectedly stuck being a GP again. There's this new baby. And his Auntie Joan has died. It's "taken the wind out of his sails," according to MC.
Lately, I feel the desire to defend S5, which has to be my favourite series so far. I really liked the theme of the series, which seemed to me to be what people will do for love. So many characters were doing things they didn’t want to do for someone they loved. Case in point:
Dr. Dibbs – she was happy being a nurse, but gave it up to become a doctor for her husband
Joe P – trying everything he can to get Maggie to love him again
LG – accepts DM back into her life almost immediately, even agreeing to move to London to be with him and their new family; later she forgives her mother over and over again to try and rebuild that relationship
Sally – takes a ridiculous concoction of drugs to make herself noticeable to the man she loves
Al – almost loses his job and gets tangled with loan sharks trying to save his dad
A host of other characters doing things for people the thing they love – Michael allowing Ruth in (a bit) to help his Mom, the funeral parlour kid making himself sick for a girlfriend, right down to the cat lady and her antics for her cats.
I think what I liked about it is that when you try and are false to who you are, it ends badly (see Dr. Dibbs, Joe or Sally). The honeymooning-couple at the end were clearly willing to do anything for each other and were blissfully happy. You also get to see what happens when you are unwilling. Mr. Coley didn’t stop working and spend more time with his wife and now lives a lonely existence in a garden shed. The “villain” of the series was Eleanor who couldn't be bothered doing anything for other people. She uses Chippy almost to death for her business; she can’t even babysit her grandson for a morning to help her daughter. When it’s obvious even to her how selfish she is, she leaves, giving up any remaining chance of being a part of LG’s or JH’s life.
E8 is where it’s time for DM to decide what he’s willing to do. In his case, it’s to reject science and go with “feelings”. His mind has to be telling him that the right thing to do at the castle is listen to Ruth who has years of experience dealing with lunatics and probably dozens of case studies to prove her point. On the other hand he has a primary school teacher and her “gut feeling”. He decided that what he can do for LG is trust her judgment. And for him, this also meant finally expressing his feelings and admitting to LG, albeit in a weird made-for-TV way, how he felt about her. He’s willing to give up his vision of their future (London with JH in a top prep school) for hers (PW with JH attending the same school his mother did).
I admit, I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic, so I may be reading a bit much into it. But, it’s made me love S5 and so ready for S6.
Thanks, Mazzie. I think that's an interesting way to look at it. You've given us a new perspective on S5.
I can't honestly describe it as my favorite series (I think S3 is, right up until the end, of course), but I do think S5 is very, very significant in the Doc's development. In fact, it ends with a huge turnaround for him. Opting to stay in PW for the people he loves is huge. He could say, "I do love you. Come to London with me." That's how he started that series (minus the "I love you").
I like you list of all the people who did so much for love, some of it not so smart, but still, done for love.
Comments
Dr. Dibbs – she was happy being a nurse, but gave it up to become a doctor for her husband
Joe P – trying everything he can to get Maggie to love him again
LG – accepts DM back into her life almost immediately, even agreeing to move to London to be with him and their new family; later she forgives her mother over and over again to try and rebuild that relationship
Sally – takes a ridiculous concoction of drugs to make herself noticeable to the man she loves
Al – almost loses his job and gets tangled with loan sharks trying to save his dad
A host of other characters doing things for people the thing they love – Michael allowing Ruth in (a bit) to help his Mom, the funeral parlour kid making himself sick for a girlfriend, right down to the cat lady and her antics for her cats.
I think what I liked about it is that when you try and are false to who you are, it ends badly (see Dr. Dibbs, Joe or Sally). The honeymooning-couple at the end were clearly willing to do anything for each other and were blissfully happy. You also get to see what happens when you are unwilling. Mr. Coley didn’t stop working and spend more time with his wife and now lives a lonely existence in a garden shed. The “villain” of the series was Eleanor who couldn't be bothered doing anything for other people. She uses Chippy almost to death for her business; she can’t even babysit her grandson for a morning to help her daughter. When it’s obvious even to her how selfish she is, she leaves, giving up any remaining chance of being a part of LG’s or JH’s life.
E8 is where it’s time for DM to decide what he’s willing to do. In his case, it’s to reject science and go with “feelings”. His mind has to be telling him that the right thing to do at the castle is listen to Ruth who has years of experience dealing with lunatics and probably dozens of case studies to prove her point. On the other hand he has a primary school teacher and her “gut feeling”. He decided that what he can do for LG is trust her judgment. And for him, this also meant finally expressing his feelings and admitting to LG, albeit in a weird made-for-TV way, how he felt about her. He’s willing to give up his vision of their future (London with JH in a top prep school) for hers (PW with JH attending the same school his mother did).
I admit, I’m a bit of a hopeless romantic, so I may be reading a bit much into it. But, it’s made me love S5 and so ready for S6.
Mazzie, good description of last season. My feeling is that Doc really loves Port Wenn and I see him remaining there with the family he has there now, his aunt, his wife(hopefully) and his son. If you notice he often looks purposely at the harbor as he's drinking his morning coffee, as he walks through town, just always seems to have an affection for his early childhood vacation place. I think a good solution for him missing the only thing he felt like he was good at is to be a part time surgeon in Truro. That way he can still be the town's doc but also use his surgeon skills if he desires. This would also leave the door open for another season in the future though I guess that's wishful thinking.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/26602223@N00/8772076670/in/photostream/
Good morning DM and NewPark,
Yes DM, I agree with your view of Martin being unconscious and it's good that you bring this up since are we not all unconscious (to varying degrees) of our motives most of the time? But I wonder about the idea of Martin thinking he deserves what happens to him. Perhaps this is just a matter of semantics, but I'm wonder if NewPark's view regarding belief is maybe closer to the mark? Or perhaps we could say, "He doesn't believe he deserves love and affection." I just feel that if Martin had a blinding flash of insight, he would not move toward the idea of deserve. It would be what he believes to be true.
It seems that many viewers are confused and frustrated with what went on in Series 5. Like you, DM, I was particularly annoyed with Louisa on many occasions. She seems almost oblivious to the fact that Martin has accommodated her in so many ways. And although, as you say NewPark, she will only go so far with his inability to be intimate, she does know what she is up against with this man! Perhaps her failure in Series 5 could be due to the pressures of having a new baby. After all, look what she is up against: all the emotions of being a new mother; getting used to nursing and losing sleep; adjustment to a new living arrangement; living with Martin for the first time; and then starting her job again! (All within a period of about 2 months?) That said, I have always wondered why the writers didn't explore (or progress) the relationship in regard to Martin and Louisa sleeping together. After all, they were in bed together every night! But not so much as a good-night kiss, a head on a shoulder, holding hands even. Perhaps the idea was that Martin was being very respectful and giving Louisa what she needed/wanted/required? But here we are back again with Martin accommodating Louisa. Any thoughts?
Shop Girl, in her last post, mentions that Martin at this time will still be grieving for Auntie Joan. I had forgotten that and it is extremely important. So here we have these two imperfect people thrown together under extreme circumstances. I suppose the result isn't so surprising, but I still would have liked to see Louisa try harder.
I've been reading the posts when I can, just haven't had time to comment or even think about much of anything else. I'm so tired and feel like I have run over by a truck. I was doing 8 hour turnarounds last week, I have a four hour turnaround this week. This is the first true day off I've had in three weeks.
We are converting to a new system and that is always tons of work. First you have to gut the room and reconfigure it for the new system work environment which means that you have to carefully move the old system to a temporary location while keeping it operational and install the new. The old system is grumpy and doesn't like being moved. An extra bonus feature is that as you dismantle the old system to accommodate the new some very squirrely things happen so you have to deal with those on top of everything else.
At the same time we have to duplicate and push everything over to the new system and manually double check it all to make sure it is what it is supposed to be-it is petabytes of files. Then we go through another round of training then shadow the old system with the new to ensure the new system is working properly. It never does so you have to figure out what is wrong and try to fix it. None of them are truly designed to do what we use them for, either, so we have to figure out a way to do what we need to do with the new system. Think square peg/round hole. We have managed to pound most of the pegs into the holes-it ain't pretty but they work.
Another shining example of giving up what you love for what you must do. So glad those days are behind me. Glad to hear from you though ...
I am very much a fan of Jung. That said, I believe that Campbell took ideas from Jung re the unconscious and archetypes, etc. He also visited Jung briefly but I have yet to find out what happened at that meeting. (There is a You Tube reference to this that cuts out just as we are going to be told what Jung said to Campbell.) Yes, it seems that Campbell did have great influence, but is now in disrepute in many circles. I feel that I should research him as well, but I'm so overwhelmed with work that it is difficult to find the time.
It seems to me that a majority of commentors would like to see Louisa try harder. But then again, we have to remember that Doc Martin is the name of the show (not "Louisa the Teacher") and that it is his hero's journey that we are following.
And although we usually are willing to cut LG some slack - new mum, back to work too early, lousy parents, we want her to cut him some slack also. He never hid his imperfections from her and she pursued him anyway. He was willing to stay in the background nourishing his school boy crush but Louisa was always about moving things forward.
I look forward to some adult relationship between them - but really, with what they have to work with it cannot suddenly be stable, giving, nurturing, romantic, etcetera, etcetera. We will all just have to accept the dysfunctionality, look for the humor and the silver lining (Martin Clunes), and deal with the story they tell us.
Personally I don't want LG to "try harder" but I would like the writers to show her motivation more so we can understand where she's coming from.
I don't think you can excuse the total lack of involvement of LGs thoughts by saying it is DMs journey. His journey involves and is shaped by those around him and the villagers.
LG does cut DM some slack by agreeing to move in with him and then to London before DM has given any indication that he really loves her.
During the search for Mrs T DM is just nasty to LG telling her not to be an idiot etc. I think, at that point, he has a long way to go before a relationship is possible.
DM said, in regard to Penhale and Maggie, that he didnt think it was romantic to force yourself on someone when they had a medical condition. I think this is the excuse they've given him in s5 not to push himself onto LG (a plot device really :rolleyes:) but I don't understand why there was so little affection between them. Didn't seem believable to me even between two people who were struggling to live together.
I've puzzled over this too (as have we all). Because I do feel that beyond the new parents, new job, death of AJ, they might have found a few moments to show their affection.
I think any answer to why they didn't has to have at least two parts. One, the creative powers that be clearly made this choice. They wanted it to have some dramatic impact. What were they trying to achieve with this portrayal of "bed-death?" And two, what are we, the viewing audience, supposed to think or infer about the characters' reasons for keeping their distance from each other in this way? In other words, is the creative team's choice, made to achieve some dramatic end, actually plausible?
As for what the creative team had in mind: at first I thought they were doing this solely to drag the series on -- because they were worried about their audience losing interest if the relationship became obviously intimate and affectionate. They didn't want to lose the "will they - won't they" tension. Also, I think they had in mind building to another crisis in their relationship, with a dramatic resolution at the end, and I don't think they could have done this if they had made it obvious that they were (again) having sex, or at least were physically affectionate with each other and looking forward to the resumption of "marital" relations. And once they started physical intimacy, it would be hard to believe that they would have gotten themselves into such a muddle so quickly. Maybe it's an over-romantic faith in the power of sex, but I just find it hard to believe that there would have been so much umbrage taken by Louisa, or such high-handed decision-making by Martin, etc., etc., if they were growing closer to each other in that way. So they had to show them keeping their distance, of which those buttoned up pjs (so much less sexy than the t-shirt and pj bottoms of S1) are a visual sign. Not that we ever see Louisa in anything approaching slinky nighttime wear, even after a few weeks have passed. I think it's this lack of affection between them that makes their breakup after 8 weeks seem possible and the resolution at the end much more dramatic.
Sometimes I've even wondered if the growing frustration that Louisa and perhaps Martin must be feeling is meant to produce a kind of mirroring effect in the audience -- in whom frustration was building as well. That also contributes to the relief of tension at the Castle scene.
On the question of whether it's at all plausible that Martin and Louisa behave this way -- again, aside from all the newborn baby complications, AJ, etc. -- I think they're less successful in convincing us that it makes much sense. Even though we understand that sex is not on the horizon for a few weeks, surely,surely, there would have been some demonstration of affection for a couple that had hours before passionately reconciled? The best I have ever been able to come up with is that each remembered their parting scene at the wedding, and so were reluctant to press each other, or presume that they would now make each other happy (enough). Louisa was at first clearly giving him some space; Martin was, I think, just retreating back inside himself, to avoid dealing with the emotions stirred up at the end of S4. And also with the new feelings of parental love and probably also some upset with the chaotic state of his previously very orderly lifestyle.
Very amusing, besotted--Louisa the Teacher. Perhaps you are right in that I, along with others, am wanting and expecting too much too soon. And yes, it is Martin's journey, although without Louisa how would his journey progress? Her struggles are bound up with his. I am hoping for a little more of them and James Henry in the Series 6, a smidgen less of the other characters.
And I think this is the kind of stuff we will see from them in S6, and if we are very, very good, S7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Doc_Martin_episodes
I feel that this is a really excellent analysis, NewPark! These points have been nagging at me since the beginning of Series 5. Yes, perhaps if there had been even suggested intimacy, the break-up and reconciliation would not really have been believable. And as you say, from the point of view of drama, the writers are probably manipulating us; but if we're looking for verisimilitude, their behaviour is very unlikely. (For example, thinking of the scene where Louisa says she wants to go and live with him in London, could she not have at least made some tiny gesture of affection?)
Do you have a background in writing NewPark?
'Hi yes the co-op is a grocery store, and he was immaculately dressed. Looking extremely thin and yes ladies, he sounded just as he does on TV. I called out "Mr Clunes and he looked up and said hi. I walked my dog over to his very nice BMW and he was lovely to my cocker spaniel Willow who reminded him of his Mary. He asked if we were having a lovely time and I said I expect he was busy working. Can't believe that I said to him my children had just pranked me by saying the dog had pooped in the trunk. Gosh the things you say when you are star struck. Mind you the children had really said that. I'm sure he went home and said he met a really cute dog with a strange lady !!! I thanked him fir his time and he said no problem and off we all drove. Minus photo. Argggh...'
And this:
' Can't get over how skinny he is now. But very tanned. We saw Aunty Ruth a couple of days ago and she looked very frail. I brushed shoulders with Louisa as we passed each other in a vey skinny Dolphin Street, she was rushing off But again I didn't like to hassle. Did get photos of Pc Penhale. I don't seem to have right to post pics or start status on hear though.'
Thanks for the kind words. I have done some writing, but pretty dry, technical stuff mostly. Plus a lot of papers in grad school.
This is so funny and sweet. If I could even speak at all in that situation, I'm sure I would blurt out something just as inappropriate.
Where do you think she met him and his BMW? In Beaminster or Port Isaac.
I'd probably take a photo of the back of his car driving away!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Caption: the day I spoke to MC!
Why can’t we like Doc Martin for what it is instead of always looking to change it. Are we all Louisas?
I watch because the writing, the stories and the acting is superb. When I am disappointed I don’t think about how they could/should have made it different. I wonder what will happen next.
Changes like many suggest would make it very like any and every other program. I truly want it to be different and to stand out by itself.
Perhaps Dominic Minghella said that DM and LG would never get together because the original vision was NOT a love story. It was indeed the journey of DM – ALL of his life. And now the love story has taken center stage especially with the baby.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the love story, and I really enjoy the interaction of DM and JH. It is a wonderful turn-around for a character as damaged as DM to find that deep love. But it was disappointing to see that some British fans fell off the grid because the story did not turn out as they wanted. I am going to hang in there and hope for a better story and ending than W&M but more than anything, I want the team to live up to the standards they have set for our hero.
Very interesting point dmbesotted. IF the original vision was a journey of DM, of which the attraction to Louisa was just one element and was not intended to take center stage -- then it runs smack up against another stated vision of MC;s -- that DM never be seen to be changed, or :"healed" in any way. But you can't have both, because if DM never learns anything and the love story stays more or less peripheral and never goes anywhere, then you have stasis, dependent on the medical crisis or oddball local of the week.
I think it was probably the fan response that led to the love story becoming more central, to a degree that wasn't initially anticipated, and now you have a situation where DM doesn't change or soften much (except in the last few minutes of a season) and the love story gets ever more central and fraught. So yes, I think it may have become a bit unbalanced in straying from the original vision of DM on some kind of journey (if that was what was intended). But I agree, now we take it for what it is, and enjoy the wonderful writing, acting, production, etc. and hope and trust that S6 (and S7) will have just as much to offer as S1-5.
She said it was Port Isaac. He's probably happy to be driving again!
That is why Louisa is so important to Martin: she is there to cuddle him, for this is a man who has cried out, silently, his whole life.
Wow! What a lucky ducky! Are both of these posts from the same person (I looked at FB and couldn't find these -- I was hoping for more questions and hence more info).
Skinny, tanned, immaculately dressed! Sigh.
Good points, Shop Girl. For some reason I recently rewatched the bonus material on the S5 DVD. MC made a point that the Doc is "reeling" in S5. He's unexpectedly stuck being a GP again. There's this new baby. And his Auntie Joan has died. It's "taken the wind out of his sails," according to MC.
Thanks, Mazzie. I think that's an interesting way to look at it. You've given us a new perspective on S5.
I can't honestly describe it as my favorite series (I think S3 is, right up until the end, of course), but I do think S5 is very, very significant in the Doc's development. In fact, it ends with a huge turnaround for him. Opting to stay in PW for the people he loves is huge. He could say, "I do love you. Come to London with me." That's how he started that series (minus the "I love you").
I like you list of all the people who did so much for love, some of it not so smart, but still, done for love.