And you may recall I mentioned about a message that Oscar never replied to , and that was unusual , as he'd always had a pattern of replying to all the other messages Reeva sent him. But his one was 7 days before the incident, where Reeva sends him a message and he does not reply. After Roux picking out a list of lovey dovey messages between Reeva and Oscar - This was what Nel aksed the Phone Analyst afterwards-
Nel: The Defence picked some messages, but you didn't find any long messages dealing with love and so on?
Moller: No.
Nel refers the message 7 days before Oscar shot Reeva, her complaining about being attacked by outsiders…
Nel - Was there a response to that?
Moller: No. She greeted him good morning.
And you may recall I mentioned about a message that Oscar never replied to , and that was unusual , as he'd always had a pattern of replying to all the other messages Reeva sent him. But his one was 7 days before the incident, where Reeva sends him a message and he does not reply. Ready in reverse order.
#OscarPistorius Nel - was there a response to that?
Moller: No. She greeted him good morning. Nel concludes. BB
OscarPistorius Nel refers the message 7 days before Oscar shot Reeva, her complaining about being attacked by outsiders… BB
#OscarPistorius Nel: the defence picked some messages, but you didn't find any long messages dealing with love and so on?
No. BB
I clearly have a lot of messages to catch up on!
But for now it will be big domestic trouble for me if I don't get to bed. Night all!
I have a problem with him going into a massive rage at any time before he first hits the door with the bat bacause Mrs Stipp might well have heard it through the open window. One way round this might be to say that Reeva opened it to climb out but then why didnt she scream then. Could have been she thought that would send him ballistic. If he had the gun straight away she might have tried the window but would then be found dead crouched in the toilet.
I see a row where Reeva was trying everything to keep him from blowing whilst trying to get away. She was still up at the door when shot after all. If he followed her into the bathroom it is reasonable she was not screaming at that stage.
I think what really sent him over the edge was not being able to get to her, for him a humiliating loss of control, respect and power. Not good for his type
I can see this too - a row that's coming and going, Reeva trying to calm him down, and he follows her to the bathroom and picks up the bat along the way.
This is why I think it was quietish before but the bang on the bath/door is what alerted people and then the screaming.
I imagine there could have been an ongoing row that may have been louder at some points in the bedroom, but moving from bedroom to bathroom, I dont' see why it should be terribly loud, she could have just insisted that she needed a pee and used that as an excuse to get in the toilet and stay there, and once she'd locked herself in he realised he'd been tricked.
He may have even said - you don't need your phone for that and she played along.
I don't know, there are reasonable scenarios that work.
Once she'd 'escaped', that's when he really lost it and it erupted into violence.
Yes I agree. I have not thought too much about the texts yet. I can see OP may have been bottling things up and occasions like Christmas, moving house tend to be when things come out as people are faced with how they really feel about people. In this case for a relatively short relationship I guess Valentine day might do it. The trouble is reading all those messages never really gets you any further than a maybe because with the likes of OP no one ever really knows what goes on in his head.
This was a short relationship and I don't personally believe OP was deeply involved in ti.. tbh.. men as a rule don't fall quickly and deeply in the way women do... don't get emotionally attached so quickly as a rule so I think his jealousy was just part of his nature and more along the lines of.... if you are with ME you are lucky and should be 100% adoring... I think it was an ego thing more than actually being totally in love with reeva..... mainly as it had only been literally three months, and a lot of that time he was away... I feel reeva started all the lovey dovey stuff and he seemed to go along with it. , and she seemed to send kisses and love to all and sundry,
And you may recall I mentioned about a message that Oscar never replied to , and that was unusual , as he'd always had a pattern of replying to all the other messages Reeva sent him. But his one was 7 days before the incident, where Reeva sends him a message and he does not reply. After Roux picking out a list of lovey dovey messages between Reeva and Oscar - This was what Nel aksed the Phone Analyst afterwards-
Nel: The Defence picked some messages, but you didn't find any long messages dealing with love and so on? No.
Nel refers the message 7 days before Oscar shot Reeva, her complaining about being attacked by outsiders…
Nel - Was there a response to that?
Moller: No. She greeted him good morning. Nel concludes.
\yes I remember that message in court, no reply which ws unusual..... All these funny little lovey kiss kiss short words back and fore and a few massively long ones about their problems I find it al odd.
This was a short relationship and I don't personally believe OP was deeply involved in ti.. tbh.. men as a rule don't fall quickly and deeply in the way women do... don't get emotionally attached so quickly as a rule so I think his jealousy was just part of his nature and more along the lines of.... if you are with ME you are lucky and should be 100% adoring... I think it was an ego thing more than actually being totally in love with reeva..... mainly as it had only been literally three months, and a lot of that time he was away... I feel reeva started all the lovey dovey stuff and he seemed to go along with it. , and she seemed to send kisses and love to all and sundry,
I think if she enraged OP it wasn't about his 'love' for her being damaged.
It was about his pride and manliness or something. And perhaps some idea that no one 'does that' to OP, or that she might tell tales about him in the media.
The thought of that would massively piss off a man like that, and an immature man, stuffed with pride and self importance, who thinks everyone will cover for him and who has a temper and a gun, is not a safe person.
Nel did not read out the Whatsapp messages of that night
What was read was some Whatsapp messages in the past between Oscar and Reeva that showed she was "unhappy with him"
I'm not hoping for more… you should go back and listen to that testimony and see for yourself!
Nel did not present the messages on PURPOSE… because he will use them during Oscar's cross when they will matter and be effective
All of the application data is in evidence and Nel does not have to present it when cellphone expert is testifying
the bold writing reads like you are shouting, it's distracting ,,,calm down,it's just discussion.
What makes you think there was any WhatsApp messaging from Reeva that night ? I think you are just hoping that there will be evidence that's a smoking gun !! her phone was not used after she arrived according to the Analyst.
The phone analyst read out the relevant WhatsApp messaging that was all prior to that night - and that's what we've all been talking about - that it was unusual that she made no communication to anybody while she was at Oscar's -
And you are just guessing there's more to come, and that Nel will put forward his trump card while the Defence are presenting their case, he's had the opportunity during his own Case to the Court to put forward the evidence - I think you're reaching unless you've had access to Nel's files^_^.
I think if she enraged OP it wasn't about his 'love' for her being damaged.
It was about his pride and manliness or something. And perhaps some idea that no one 'does that' to OP, or that she might tell tales about him in the media.
The thought of that would massively piss off a man like that, and an immature man, stuffed with pride and self importance, who thinks everyone will cover for him and who has a temper and a gun, is not a safe person.
Yes def... he needed pandering to.... and was probably used to it.... was well know for causing upsets...i.e.at olympics with a room mate, obviously a really awkward """" to deal with, reeva sounded like she was walking on eggshells in some of those texts... telling him how marvellous he was etc.... I find it all a bit false and sickly.. but on that night she presumably stepped out of line for the big OP
I can't imagine how Mrs Berger, Mrs Stipp and Mrs Van De Merwe have felt and will continue to feel probably for the rest of their lives. They heard a woman's last screams, her final moments of life. Sure they will forgot about it and not think about it daily but it will remain embedded in the back of their minds.
I can't imagine how Mrs Berger, Mrs Stipp and Mrs Van De Merwe have felt and will continue to feel probably for the rest of their lives. They heard a woman's last screams, her final moments of life. Sure they will forgot about it and not think about it daily but it will remain embedded in the back of their minds.
I know I could never forget something like that.
glad they're not my neighbours - they didn't call the police from outset or Security til they'd listened for a bit - and that wasn't helpful to Reeva, as they could have saved her life had they reacted quicker - domestic/burglary whatever they thought it was the woman's screams was sure indication she was in trouble !!! but they are helping in Court by giving testimony.
\yes I remember that message in court, no reply which ws unusual..... All these funny little lovey kiss kiss short words back and fore and a few massively long ones about their problems I find it al odd.
i've mentioned it on here before , and been told that this wasn't the case, and that he'd replied to all messages - now I've found the actual Court report on this - I can post the message what I was referring to, that he didn't reply to.
the bold writing reads like you are shouting, it's distracting ,,,calm down,it's just discussion.
The phone analyst read out the relevant WhatsApp messaging - and there were none after she arrived that night at Oscar's , that's what we've all been talking about - that is was unusual that she made no communication to anybody while at Oscar's - And you are just guessing there's more to come, and that Nel will put forward his trump card while the Defence are presenting their case, he's had the opportunity during his own Case to the Court to put forward the evidence - I think you're reaching.
Sorry about the bold…I'm not shouting
Does italic mean whispering? ;-)
Nel had Moller read Whatsapp messages between Reeva and Oscar for the specific purpose of showing that Reeva was scared of Oscar when he lost his temper…. he did that because Reeva cannot testify…
Reeva's phone made 23 GPRS connections on the 13th between 12:11:50 and 20:04:17
Nel did not ask Moller if he found corresponding times in application data for all these GPRS connections.
What Nel did is enter into evidence the application data and have Moller explain to the Court how to match GPRS connection with application data.
Now, why do you think Nel would do that if all he has is the Whatsapp messages of January and early February?
You have to remember this is not a Law & Order TV show, it is real life Court room procedure and strategy.
Having Moller tell the Court about Reeva's Whatsapp communications on the 13th has no impact.
Nel knows that Oscar will testify and he wants to use the info he submitted into evidence to cross-examine Oscar after he hears what Oscar says in chief.
glad they're not my neighbours - they didn't call the police from outset or Security til they'd listened for a bit - and that wasn't helpful to Reeva, as they could have saved her life had they reacted quicker - domestic/burglary whatever they thought it was the woman's screams was sure indication she was in trouble !!! but they are helping in Court by giving testimony.
I understand what you mean and when I think about that part it does make me angry because I don't understand why you wouldn't call the police first. >:(
I suppose I can say that it all happened to quickly in the night and they didnt understand where it was coming from, and also that it wouldn't occur to them that a man has fatally shot his girlfriend despite hearing gunshots. Psychologically you don't want to think that.
I wonder what the norm is in that area, do you have to call the security first? Are they equipped to deal with this kind of behaviour? Is that why they call them first?
What about the house actually next door to OP with lights all on... surely they should have heard something you would think?? they did not testify or go to the house to see what was going on, and they were actual neighbours... with lights on at 3am
I approached it from the other way. Both the Stipps said there was light in the toilet. Mrs Stipp that the intensity of the light in the toilet was the same as in the bathroom. At that point just after the first bangs, the only way that could be there was from a fairly big hole in the panel. So OP story cannot be true as it has him firing first and bullet holes let in very little light.
As for what triggered it all. We will probably never know but if the toilet light evidence holds I don't think it will matter.
(This may all change at 7.35 on Monday April 7th )
Even the brokn panels wouldn't let in much light, it was only a fairly small panel that was out.
I wonder how OP's testimony will describe the events. He will have to draw it all out such that all the screaming noises and lit up toilet will be after the shooting. He will have to suggest the shooting was the first thing the witnesses heard, but didn't realise they had as it woke them up. Could OP's testimony be based on saying that he opened the toilet door soon after the shooting - hence the toilet was lit up. The screaming was him in anguish at what he had done, and the later banging was him kicking the bath panel in frustration.
This is assuming he has to come up with an innocent explanation for what the witnesses heard. The alternative is that he has different ear/eye witnesses whose evidence is contrary to the earlier witnesses and throws it into doubt.
I can't imagine how Mrs Berger, Mrs Stipp and Mrs Van De Merwe have felt and will continue to feel probably for the rest of their lives. They heard a woman's last screams, her final moments of life. Sure they will forgot about it and not think about it daily but it will remain embedded in the back of their minds.
I know I could never forget something like that.
Possibly that's why there were so firm when the defence put to them that it was a man they heard screaming?
Can someone give me a bit of info please?
During the police photographers evidence when he was photographing Oscar in the garage Nel asked him what was Botha doing at that time and I'm sure he said that Botha had gone to get Oscars phone for him, perhaps I got that wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what was said.
Not sure which phone it was but did one of them have nothing on it at all so could have been deleted if Botha gave him his phone?
I don't believe the phone data will produce anything incriminating at all.
Whatever ammunition Nel thinks he has has already been given in evidence and can easily be explained away.
I can't believe that Nel has found anything that could constitute a "smoking gun" to use during cross examination, he's had more than an opportunity to present anything damning during his prosecution, if he suddenly comes up with something he is holding in reserve then I can see Roux asking for a couple of days adjournment to go through the data himself in order to put up a defence.
If that happens I honestly can't see the judge being very happy about it when whatever data evidence Nel has could have been introduced before closing the state case.
In the this text message where she asked if Oscar minded her coming to his house to do laundry and do some work, I wonder if it was on her speech she was to give on domestic and sexual violence against girls and women at a High school I Jo'Burg on Valentines day?
The irony of that. I also wonder if a discussion about domestic violence between them could have been a trigger for a heated discussion that escalated? Thoughts anyone?
Text message.
On February 11, Steenkamp sent a message asking if she could cook for Pistorius on Thursday February 14 last year. “I’d love that Nunu,” was Pistorius’s response.
On the afternoon before she was killed, Steenkamp sent a message to Pistorius, reading “Baba, I hope you don’t mind but I came back to the house to work a bit and to do some washing.”
Comments
Nel: The Defence picked some messages, but you didn't find any long messages dealing with love and so on?
Moller: No.
Nel refers the message 7 days before Oscar shot Reeva, her complaining about being attacked by outsiders…
Nel - Was there a response to that?
Moller: No. She greeted him good morning.
Nel concludes.
I clearly have a lot of messages to catch up on!
But for now it will be big domestic trouble for me if I don't get to bed. Night all!
I can see this too - a row that's coming and going, Reeva trying to calm him down, and he follows her to the bathroom and picks up the bat along the way.
This is why I think it was quietish before but the bang on the bath/door is what alerted people and then the screaming.
I imagine there could have been an ongoing row that may have been louder at some points in the bedroom, but moving from bedroom to bathroom, I dont' see why it should be terribly loud, she could have just insisted that she needed a pee and used that as an excuse to get in the toilet and stay there, and once she'd locked herself in he realised he'd been tricked.
He may have even said - you don't need your phone for that and she played along.
I don't know, there are reasonable scenarios that work.
Once she'd 'escaped', that's when he really lost it and it erupted into violence.
This was a short relationship and I don't personally believe OP was deeply involved in ti.. tbh.. men as a rule don't fall quickly and deeply in the way women do... don't get emotionally attached so quickly as a rule so I think his jealousy was just part of his nature and more along the lines of.... if you are with ME you are lucky and should be 100% adoring... I think it was an ego thing more than actually being totally in love with reeva..... mainly as it had only been literally three months, and a lot of that time he was away... I feel reeva started all the lovey dovey stuff and he seemed to go along with it. , and she seemed to send kisses and love to all and sundry,
Oscar Poorstoryius.
And I laughed:D:blush:
goodnight porky, well done with the investigations ;-) I am off now.. this is too addictive..;-)
oh tha t is clever I love the name!!
\yes I remember that message in court, no reply which ws unusual..... All these funny little lovey kiss kiss short words back and fore and a few massively long ones about their problems I find it al odd.
I think if she enraged OP it wasn't about his 'love' for her being damaged.
It was about his pride and manliness or something. And perhaps some idea that no one 'does that' to OP, or that she might tell tales about him in the media.
The thought of that would massively piss off a man like that, and an immature man, stuffed with pride and self importance, who thinks everyone will cover for him and who has a temper and a gun, is not a safe person.
What makes you think there was any WhatsApp messaging from Reeva that night ? I think you are just hoping that there will be evidence that's a smoking gun !! her phone was not used after she arrived according to the Analyst.
The phone analyst read out the relevant WhatsApp messaging that was all prior to that night - and that's what we've all been talking about - that it was unusual that she made no communication to anybody while she was at Oscar's -
And you are just guessing there's more to come, and that Nel will put forward his trump card while the Defence are presenting their case, he's had the opportunity during his own Case to the Court to put forward the evidence - I think you're reaching unless you've had access to Nel's files^_^.
Yes def... he needed pandering to.... and was probably used to it.... was well know for causing upsets...i.e.at olympics with a room mate, obviously a really awkward """" to deal with, reeva sounded like she was walking on eggshells in some of those texts... telling him how marvellous he was etc.... I find it all a bit false and sickly.. but on that night she presumably stepped out of line for the big OP
I know I could never forget something like that.
Sorry about the bold…I'm not shouting
Does italic mean whispering? ;-)
Nel had Moller read Whatsapp messages between Reeva and Oscar for the specific purpose of showing that Reeva was scared of Oscar when he lost his temper…. he did that because Reeva cannot testify…
Reeva's phone made 23 GPRS connections on the 13th between 12:11:50 and 20:04:17
Nel did not ask Moller if he found corresponding times in application data for all these GPRS connections.
What Nel did is enter into evidence the application data and have Moller explain to the Court how to match GPRS connection with application data.
Now, why do you think Nel would do that if all he has is the Whatsapp messages of January and early February?
You have to remember this is not a Law & Order TV show, it is real life Court room procedure and strategy.
Having Moller tell the Court about Reeva's Whatsapp communications on the 13th has no impact.
Nel knows that Oscar will testify and he wants to use the info he submitted into evidence to cross-examine Oscar after he hears what Oscar says in chief.
That's Court room strategy 101
So…I don't think I'm reaching
I understand what you mean and when I think about that part it does make me angry because I don't understand why you wouldn't call the police first. >:(
I suppose I can say that it all happened to quickly in the night and they didnt understand where it was coming from, and also that it wouldn't occur to them that a man has fatally shot his girlfriend despite hearing gunshots. Psychologically you don't want to think that.
I wonder what the norm is in that area, do you have to call the security first? Are they equipped to deal with this kind of behaviour? Is that why they call them first?
Why didn't any of us think of that ??-
so obvious, but brilliant at same time !!!!
Could they be witnesses for the defence?
Even the brokn panels wouldn't let in much light, it was only a fairly small panel that was out.
I wonder how OP's testimony will describe the events. He will have to draw it all out such that all the screaming noises and lit up toilet will be after the shooting. He will have to suggest the shooting was the first thing the witnesses heard, but didn't realise they had as it woke them up. Could OP's testimony be based on saying that he opened the toilet door soon after the shooting - hence the toilet was lit up. The screaming was him in anguish at what he had done, and the later banging was him kicking the bath panel in frustration.
This is assuming he has to come up with an innocent explanation for what the witnesses heard. The alternative is that he has different ear/eye witnesses whose evidence is contrary to the earlier witnesses and throws it into doubt.
Possibly that's why there were so firm when the defence put to them that it was a man they heard screaming?
During the police photographers evidence when he was photographing Oscar in the garage Nel asked him what was Botha doing at that time and I'm sure he said that Botha had gone to get Oscars phone for him, perhaps I got that wrong but I'm pretty sure that's what was said.
Not sure which phone it was but did one of them have nothing on it at all so could have been deleted if Botha gave him his phone?
He's gonna be stuck with that one forever
Whatever ammunition Nel thinks he has has already been given in evidence and can easily be explained away.
I can't believe that Nel has found anything that could constitute a "smoking gun" to use during cross examination, he's had more than an opportunity to present anything damning during his prosecution, if he suddenly comes up with something he is holding in reserve then I can see Roux asking for a couple of days adjournment to go through the data himself in order to put up a defence.
If that happens I honestly can't see the judge being very happy about it when whatever data evidence Nel has could have been introduced before closing the state case.
The irony of that. I also wonder if a discussion about domestic violence between them could have been a trigger for a heated discussion that escalated? Thoughts anyone?
Text message.
On February 11, Steenkamp sent a message asking if she could cook for Pistorius on Thursday February 14 last year. “I’d love that Nunu,” was Pistorius’s response.
On the afternoon before she was killed, Steenkamp sent a message to Pistorius, reading “Baba, I hope you don’t mind but I came back to the house to work a bit and to do some washing.”
I sometimes refer to him as Oscar Peterson ....