If you have moved from an 80mph speed in the middle lane, to a big gap between two lorries, then you will eventually close on the lorry in front. Traffic conditions may be such that you might be stuck there for a while. If that situation is then compounded by a lorry behind getting too close, what incompetence has been demonstrated? That you were an idiot for getting out of the middle lane in the first place? The whole thread is arguing the opposite!
You will only get "stuck there for a while" if you've completely failed to notice the traffic moving to your right in the middle lane, and how fast it's going. You can see if a stream of faster moving traffic is approaching and move out then before it catches you up and boxes you in. Motorways are very rarely bendy enough that you can't see this WELL in advance.
So you have moved from the middle lane to a big gap on the inside lane doing 80mph.
You are closing in on a lorry at a rate of 25-30mph.
You are also moving ahead of the lorry behind at 25-30mph.
Yes, you are moving along the gap at that rate (which with buffer zones at each end, might not be that big a gap after all).
You have caught the lorry up.
The lorry behind has strangely caught you up.
I'd have to say you should have reacted quicker to get back out to the middle lane.
In practice your speed will have dropped a little, more so when you realise you can't get out at the natural point that you would have started to overtake. If there is still no opportunity, then you will slow down further. Then it's possible a lorry behind may start to catch up (it might have been going faster than the one in front, or has only just joined, whatever).
Of course all the perfect drivers here would never get into such a situation. They have some force field device fitted that stops any big vehicle behind from getting too near, and a drone following that relays a picture of all the traffic following so they can plan their brief (but ultimately pointless) excursion into lane one perfectly, without slowing down or losing their place in the middle lane queue!
You will only get "stuck there for a while" if you've completely failed to notice the traffic moving to your right in the middle lane, and how fast it's going. You can see if a stream of faster moving traffic is approaching and move out then before it catches you up and boxes you in. Motorways are very rarely bendy enough that you can't see this WELL in advance.
So you should only move into the left-hand lane when
a) lane one is empty and
b) there is no one approaching behind you in lane 2
?
So essentially when there is practically no one else on the motorway?
Why do you need to read direction signs that do not apply to you, rather than concentrate on more important matters?
Most competent drivers have the ability to take in road signage, position themselves in the correct lane, react to road conditions, traffic, weather, observe where they are in relation to other vehicles rather than focus on only one aspect of driving at a time. It's what separates the unskilled drivers from the skilled ones. That's why even though they have a 300 mile journey on the motorway, they don't find themselves exiting it every few junctions because they positioned themselves in the wrong lane NOR do they have to sit in lane 2 because they're worried they may leave the motorway at the wrong exit.
You do realise that motorway exits are clearly marked, often 2 miles before the exit, then 1 mile, then again as the junction approaches. If you really aren't able to notice a junction coming up and position yourself in the correct lane, do everyone a favour and keep off the motorways.
You've never been stuck behind a lorry? I don't believe that. Unless you both only started driving last week.
When you have lane one dominated by HGVs averaging 55mph, and lane two dominate by cars averaging 20mph faster, and you take the majority advice in this thread of making use of any big enough gaps in lane one, then getting stuck there is a distinct possibility.
To my mind however, staying put in the middle lane, in the correct traffic stream for your speed (so relative speeds between cars are small), is much safer.
Never been stuck behind a truck by making a bad judgement call, have a good sense of speed and distance so know when to pull over to let others go by or accelerate past then pull in. I'm amazed how many drivers here are seemingly have such difficulty coping with motorway driving. Conditions change every second you are on the motorway, you as a driver should be able to adapt to those conditions every second.
Was a truck driver for 18yrs, worked in the states for 6 of them - god help some of those here who can't cope with 3 lanes and right lane overtaking, try 7 lanes with any lane overtakes.....
You might not bother much with direction and exit signs if you know you will be on the same motorway for next 300 miles. That's not the same as being inattentive to actual physical dangers.
Wow, just wow...it is exaclty being inattentive to physical dangers - directions indicates whetehr you are coming into built up areas , exit signs indicate thta people may start pulling across lanes, slowing down, others moving out to go round slower traffic, queues backing on to the motorway at busy junctions, people coming on to the motorway and you having to watch out for traffic moving across etc.
You drive for 300miles as you would do for 10miles - in fact you have to be more aware of whether you are starting to drift and ignoring exit signs etc is one good way of telling yourelf you are starting to get tired.
So you should only move into the left-hand lane when
a) lane one is empty and
b) there is no one approaching behind you in lane 2
?
So essentially when there is practically no one else on the motorway?
Oh Annie, I see you want a step-by-step guide of how to drive on the motorway. Guess what - that doesn't exist. Competent driving comes from assessing the road and reacting accordingly.
Sometimes moving to lane 1 when there's a gap is the right thing to do.
Sometimes moving to lane 1 when there's a gap is the wrong thing to do.
A competent driver will have assessed the conditions and made a judgement based on this assessment. They won't have to rely on a step-by-step guide. They generally stopped relying on them part-way through their driving lessons.
By the way, this assessment mentioned above takes fractions of a second, not so long that the moment has passed. It's intuitive and is part of everyday driving. This isn't a super power or special ability handed to a chosen few. It's simply how competent drivers manage to get from A to B each time they go on a journey in their vehicle.
So you should only move into the left-hand lane when
a) lane one is empty and
b) there is no one approaching behind you in lane 2
?
So essentially when there is practically no one else on the motorway?
you rally do not understand how motorways work and how traffic flows do you?
Can I honestly suggest you ring up a local driving school and ask for a couple of hours of lessons on a motorway...they did this on Fifth Gear years ago with some people who a) admitted they were bad on motorways and b) admitted they didn't really get the rules.
After a few hours they were confident drivers on the motorway and understood how they worked and why the things people are saying 'what's the problem' about on this thread are wrong to do.
You will only get "stuck there for a while" if you've completely failed to notice the traffic moving to your right in the middle lane, and how fast it's going. You can see if a stream of faster moving traffic is approaching and move out then before it catches you up and boxes you in. Motorways are very rarely bendy enough that you can't see this WELL in advance.
Yes, of course. You can also see ahead where the most natural place will be to start your overtaking maneouvre, if you're to do it without having to slow down (which makes it harder). But you can also predict, by extrapolating what the traffic in lane 2 will do, that you won't be able to overtake at that point.
(It does happen sometimes, given attentive, considerate drivers in lane 2 (myself included from time to time), that they will see your predicament, can see you will shortly need to overtake that lorry, and will move over to lane 3 even before you've started to indicate, if they can see themselves being in the way at the crucial point)
So you should only move into the left-hand lane when
a) lane one is empty and
b) there is no one approaching behind you in lane 2
?
So essentially when there is practically no one else on the motorway?
Point is wrong, when the left hand lane is clear & safe to move into you should always move into the left hand lane regardless of what's behind you in the middle lane, how hard is that to understand.
Yes, you are moving along the gap at that rate (which with buffer zones at each end, might not be that big a gap after all).
In practice your speed will have dropped a little, more so when you realise you can't get out at the natural point that you would have started to overtake. If there is still no opportunity, then you will slow down further. Then it's possible a lorry behind may start to catch up (it might have been going faster than the one in front, or has only just joined, whatever).
Of course all the perfect drivers here would never get into such a situation. They have some force field device fitted that stops any big vehicle behind from getting too near, and a drone following that relays a picture of all the traffic following so they can plan their brief (but ultimately pointless) excursion into lane one perfectly, without slowing down or losing their place in the middle lane queue!
If the gap isn't that big then you shouldn't pull in, especially if the rate you are closing on the other vehicle is nearly double its speed.
No ones advocating to pull into gaps where the driver will get boxed in, only pull in if you can let others go passed and you can then pull out and overtake if necessary. The issue is with those who stay out for miles and miles, not those staying out for 30secs, though that's long enough to let folk passed conditions allowing.
Yes, of course. You can also see ahead where the most natural place will be to start your overtaking maneouvre, if you're to do it without having to slow down (which makes it harder). But you can also predict, by extrapolating what the traffic in lane 2 will do, that you won't be able to overtake at that point.
(It does happen sometimes, given attentive, considerate drivers in lane 2 (myself included from time to time), that they will see your predicament, can see you will shortly need to overtake that lorry, and will move over to lane 3 even before you've started to indicate, if they can see themselves being in the way at the crucial point)
So what's the problem with starting the overtake earlier? If you can see that you are likely to be boxed in simply pull out earlier if it is safe to do so.
And often if you signal a few seconds longer than you might otherwise do before pulling over to lane 2 those already in lane 2 may themselves move over to lane 3 if they are able to.
If the gap isn't that big then you shouldn't pull in, especially if the rate you are closing on the other vehicle is nearly double its speed.
No ones advocating to pull into gaps where the driver will get boxed in, only pull in if you can let others go past and you can then pull out and overtake if necessary. The issue is with those who stay out for miles and miles, not those staying out for 30secs, though that's long enough to let folk passed conditions allowing.
Exactly. Also, a considerate, competent driver will know whether pulling in will result in them being boxed in as they're able to take into consideration 3 things - their speed, the speed of the traffic in lane 1 and the speed of the traffic behind them. If the gap is big enough , pull in. If not, stay in lane 2 (or 3).
They don't need a fancy app to do this or magic skills - it's just intuitive driving which comes with experience and a modicum of pragmatism and common sense, coupled with a lack of arrogance enabling them to understand that they are not the only vehicle on the road.
So what's the problem with starting the overtake earlier? If you can see that you are likely to be boxed in simply pull out earlier if it is safe to do so.
And often if you signal a few seconds longer than you might otherwise do before pulling over to lane 2 those already in lane 2 may themselves move over to lane 3 if they are able to.
BiB - and of course this falls down when you're trying to overtake the MLM in lane 2 and there's a steady stream of traffic in lane 3 which you're unable to pull into because there is no lane 4 for them to pull into as the 3 lane motorway has effectively been turned into a 3 lane road due to the incompetent morons!!!
Most competent drivers have the ability to take in road signage, position themselves in the correct lane...
So only incompentent drivers need to use a sat-nav outside urban areas?
You do realise that motorway exits are clearly marked, often 2 miles before the exit, then 1 mile, then again as the junction approaches.
Those exit signs are mainly for the benefit of people leaving the motorway, not for those planning to stay on it!
It is a fact that if you drive on roads like the M25 (eg. from M1 to Dartford), are doing so at a quiet time (eg. 3am), and plan on staying in lane one, then you will be constantly shunted from lane to lane as the motorway changes between 2, 3 and 4 lanes.
If you really aren't able to notice a junction coming up and position yourself in the correct lane, do everyone a favour and keep off the motorways.
Have you ever missed a motorway junction, or unexpectedly found yourself in a filter lane, or in fact ever missed any road sign at all?
If so, then what are you doing still driving (to say nothing of telling other people they shouldn't be on the roads)? And if not, then I don't believe you.
At least I am honest in stating that I am not perfect.
And if you're not paying to much attention to the exit signs (perhaps you know yours is still a couple of hours away), you will frequently end up in a left filter land and on a different motorway!
And I worry that people just blindly follow some rule in a book without taking account of each situation.
How desirable is it, really, to be behind a big HGV on the inside line, where you have no idea of what's immediately ahead of it? And which you are approaching at 20+ mph if still at your middle lane speed. Furthermore, if you do need to moderate your speed because there is no overtaking opportunity, to have a massive HGV right behind you (which they tend to do)? As they can make a nasty dent if you have to stop sharply.
What I'm saying is that cars and lorries don't mix.
What do you mean cars and lorries don't mix., are you saying that cars and lorries should have seperate roads, sounds like you have a fear of lorries.
It is a fact that if you drive on roads like the M25 (eg. from M1 to Dartford), are doing so at a quiet time (eg. 3am), and plan on staying in lane one, then you will be constantly shunted from lane to lane as the motorway changes between 2, 3 and 4 lanes.
So not a middle-lane hogger then, which is generally what this thread is about. At 3AM you're unlikely to encounter many other vehicles therefore you'll not be holding anyone up by staying in lane 2 (or 3 on a 4 lane road if you want to be extra cautious).
If two trucks are doing 56mph how can the truck behind catch the one in front.
Unless the front one is going considerably slower or slows down.
Then the car driver should be able to react accordingly, either pull in making sure they can pull out again, or stay out, its quite simple, though some are making it sound harder than it really is.
So only incompentent drivers need to use a sat-nav outside urban areas?
Those exit signs are mainly for the benefit of people leaving the motorway, not for those planning to stay on it!
It is a fact that if you drive on roads like the M25 (eg. from M1 to Dartford), are doing so at a quiet time (eg. 3am), and plan on staying in lane one, then you will be constantly shunted from lane to lane as the motorway changes between 2, 3 and 4 lanes.
Have you ever missed a motorway junction, or unexpectedly found yourself in a filter lane, or in fact ever missed any road sign at all?
If so, then what are you doing still driving (to say nothing of telling other people they shouldn't be on the roads)? And if not, then I don't believe you.
At least I am honest in stating that I am not perfect.
You are incredible.
The signs are for everyone, including the idiot who hasn't realised he's about to go off into a filter lane for another motorway.
Everyone you mention boils down to how much you can't be bothered to drive properly. You want everything to be easy for you, so you can just sit there with cruise control on your "300 mile journey"
Also, a sat nav will always tell you to keep right etc. when you need to.
Comments
Presumably for the situation you yourself described, where you don't want to end up in a lane which takes you somewhere you don't want to go?
You will only get "stuck there for a while" if you've completely failed to notice the traffic moving to your right in the middle lane, and how fast it's going. You can see if a stream of faster moving traffic is approaching and move out then before it catches you up and boxes you in. Motorways are very rarely bendy enough that you can't see this WELL in advance.
In practice your speed will have dropped a little, more so when you realise you can't get out at the natural point that you would have started to overtake. If there is still no opportunity, then you will slow down further. Then it's possible a lorry behind may start to catch up (it might have been going faster than the one in front, or has only just joined, whatever).
Of course all the perfect drivers here would never get into such a situation. They have some force field device fitted that stops any big vehicle behind from getting too near, and a drone following that relays a picture of all the traffic following so they can plan their brief (but ultimately pointless) excursion into lane one perfectly, without slowing down or losing their place in the middle lane queue!
So you should only move into the left-hand lane when
a) lane one is empty and
b) there is no one approaching behind you in lane 2
?
So essentially when there is practically no one else on the motorway?
Most competent drivers have the ability to take in road signage, position themselves in the correct lane, react to road conditions, traffic, weather, observe where they are in relation to other vehicles rather than focus on only one aspect of driving at a time. It's what separates the unskilled drivers from the skilled ones. That's why even though they have a 300 mile journey on the motorway, they don't find themselves exiting it every few junctions because they positioned themselves in the wrong lane NOR do they have to sit in lane 2 because they're worried they may leave the motorway at the wrong exit.
You do realise that motorway exits are clearly marked, often 2 miles before the exit, then 1 mile, then again as the junction approaches. If you really aren't able to notice a junction coming up and position yourself in the correct lane, do everyone a favour and keep off the motorways.
Because when you inadvertently end up in the lane which is about to slip off to another motorway, it becomes your concern.
Stop making stupid excuses, nothing you've said makes sense.
Your 80mph example makes no sense at all, and no middle lane hogger is ever going 80mph.
The typical middle lane hogger is doing about 65, 9 more than the HGVs, so they think it's OK to just stick in the middle lane.
Never been stuck behind a truck by making a bad judgement call, have a good sense of speed and distance so know when to pull over to let others go by or accelerate past then pull in. I'm amazed how many drivers here are seemingly have such difficulty coping with motorway driving. Conditions change every second you are on the motorway, you as a driver should be able to adapt to those conditions every second.
Was a truck driver for 18yrs, worked in the states for 6 of them - god help some of those here who can't cope with 3 lanes and right lane overtaking, try 7 lanes with any lane overtakes.....
Been driving nearly 40yrs.
Wow, just wow...it is exaclty being inattentive to physical dangers - directions indicates whetehr you are coming into built up areas , exit signs indicate thta people may start pulling across lanes, slowing down, others moving out to go round slower traffic, queues backing on to the motorway at busy junctions, people coming on to the motorway and you having to watch out for traffic moving across etc.
You drive for 300miles as you would do for 10miles - in fact you have to be more aware of whether you are starting to drift and ignoring exit signs etc is one good way of telling yourelf you are starting to get tired.
(apart from the one I saw yesterday who had accidentally run someone in a little Golf off a roundabout and straight into a telegraph pole
Oh Annie, I see you want a step-by-step guide of how to drive on the motorway. Guess what - that doesn't exist. Competent driving comes from assessing the road and reacting accordingly.
Sometimes moving to lane 1 when there's a gap is the right thing to do.
Sometimes moving to lane 1 when there's a gap is the wrong thing to do.
A competent driver will have assessed the conditions and made a judgement based on this assessment. They won't have to rely on a step-by-step guide. They generally stopped relying on them part-way through their driving lessons.
By the way, this assessment mentioned above takes fractions of a second, not so long that the moment has passed. It's intuitive and is part of everyday driving. This isn't a super power or special ability handed to a chosen few. It's simply how competent drivers manage to get from A to B each time they go on a journey in their vehicle.
you rally do not understand how motorways work and how traffic flows do you?
Can I honestly suggest you ring up a local driving school and ask for a couple of hours of lessons on a motorway...they did this on Fifth Gear years ago with some people who a) admitted they were bad on motorways and b) admitted they didn't really get the rules.
After a few hours they were confident drivers on the motorway and understood how they worked and why the things people are saying 'what's the problem' about on this thread are wrong to do.
Considering Bart gets confused by road signs on the motorway, you might want to rethink that statement
Yes, of course. You can also see ahead where the most natural place will be to start your overtaking maneouvre, if you're to do it without having to slow down (which makes it harder). But you can also predict, by extrapolating what the traffic in lane 2 will do, that you won't be able to overtake at that point.
(It does happen sometimes, given attentive, considerate drivers in lane 2 (myself included from time to time), that they will see your predicament, can see you will shortly need to overtake that lorry, and will move over to lane 3 even before you've started to indicate, if they can see themselves being in the way at the crucial point)
Point is wrong, when the left hand lane is clear & safe to move into you should always move into the left hand lane regardless of what's behind you in the middle lane, how hard is that to understand.
Have you watched the video that has been posted a couple of times? Do you see what is wrong with the driving in that?
No ones advocating to pull into gaps where the driver will get boxed in, only pull in if you can let others go passed and you can then pull out and overtake if necessary. The issue is with those who stay out for miles and miles, not those staying out for 30secs, though that's long enough to let folk passed conditions allowing.
And often if you signal a few seconds longer than you might otherwise do before pulling over to lane 2 those already in lane 2 may themselves move over to lane 3 if they are able to.
... must stay in this lane .... must stay in this lane .... must stay in this lane ...
Exactly. Also, a considerate, competent driver will know whether pulling in will result in them being boxed in as they're able to take into consideration 3 things - their speed, the speed of the traffic in lane 1 and the speed of the traffic behind them. If the gap is big enough , pull in. If not, stay in lane 2 (or 3).
They don't need a fancy app to do this or magic skills - it's just intuitive driving which comes with experience and a modicum of pragmatism and common sense, coupled with a lack of arrogance enabling them to understand that they are not the only vehicle on the road.
BiB - and of course this falls down when you're trying to overtake the MLM in lane 2 and there's a steady stream of traffic in lane 3 which you're unable to pull into because there is no lane 4 for them to pull into as the 3 lane motorway has effectively been turned into a 3 lane road due to the incompetent morons!!!
Those exit signs are mainly for the benefit of people leaving the motorway, not for those planning to stay on it!
It is a fact that if you drive on roads like the M25 (eg. from M1 to Dartford), are doing so at a quiet time (eg. 3am), and plan on staying in lane one, then you will be constantly shunted from lane to lane as the motorway changes between 2, 3 and 4 lanes.
Have you ever missed a motorway junction, or unexpectedly found yourself in a filter lane, or in fact ever missed any road sign at all?
If so, then what are you doing still driving (to say nothing of telling other people they shouldn't be on the roads)? And if not, then I don't believe you.
At least I am honest in stating that I am not perfect.
What do you mean cars and lorries don't mix., are you saying that cars and lorries should have seperate roads, sounds like you have a fear of lorries.
So not a middle-lane hogger then, which is generally what this thread is about. At 3AM you're unlikely to encounter many other vehicles therefore you'll not be holding anyone up by staying in lane 2 (or 3 on a 4 lane road if you want to be extra cautious).
Stop changing the goal posts.
You do realise trucks are limited to 56mph?
If two trucks are doing 56mph how can the truck behind catch the one in front.
Unless the front one is going considerably slower or slows down.
Then the car driver should be able to react accordingly, either pull in making sure they can pull out again, or stay out, its quite simple, though some are making it sound harder than it really is.
You are incredible.
The signs are for everyone, including the idiot who hasn't realised he's about to go off into a filter lane for another motorway.
Everyone you mention boils down to how much you can't be bothered to drive properly. You want everything to be easy for you, so you can just sit there with cruise control on your "300 mile journey"
Also, a sat nav will always tell you to keep right etc. when you need to.