I read it slightly differently. The way I read it was that at the end of the episode, Clara realised that the Doctor still was, beneath the gruff exterior, that same good man who she had loved before; the same good man she had told to get lost in the previous episode. She deeply regretted some of the stuff she had come out with and realised she still wanted to tarvel with him.
Also, she realised from her conversation with the Doctor that it's not him who is addicted to those life and death decisions - it's her; she's tried to stop, and can't.
Don't stop her now - she's having such a good time!
After the big deal around The Doctors and Clara's fall out last week I found it slightly jarring seeing them both show up. Yes there was exposition crowbarred in but yet again I can't help feeling left cold when it comes to Clara as a realistic character from episode to episode.
As for the episode itself I thoroughly enjoyed it. And again there is so much going on with Capaldi performance I instantly want to watch him again. Loved the impatient 'Hurry up' hand gesture as he held it out for the 'Alien/Myths' Professor to shake. I mentioned a while back that Capaldi' Doctor really suited the 70's white sci-fi vibe so it was wonderful to see him come so alive once the Orient Express decor illusion dropped.
There is definitely a Tom Baker vibe about Capaldi's Doctor and it was used perfectly in this episode with help from a few classic visual nods. Mummies, Mummies Sarcophagus with glowing lights inside..oh and jelly babies. When Clara is in bed in her cabin and The Doctor is talking to himself in his I swear I could almost hear Baker's Doctor.
I thought the basic concept of the episode was very interesting and played out well enough to forgive the sometimes inevitable rushed conclusions. The secondary characters were nicely written. I do wonder how tighter the actual story could have been in the good old fashioned stand alone style without having to make space for 2 big Doctor/Clara chats towards the end and the Danny/Clara inserts. At the moment they tend to distract rather than add. That said, once those arcs play out at the end of the series they might sit a little better with hindsight.
I read it slightly differently. The way I read it was that at the end of the episode, Clara realised that the Doctor still was, beneath the gruff exterior, that same good man who she had loved before...
I can't read it like that at all tbh. There were some very pointed lines about Clara saying he was addicted to making those decisions and nothing about her realising he's still a good man beneath it all. Directly after those revelations about his 'addictions' which he fails to deny, THEN she decides to say. It's an obvious cause and effect.
She seems to believe that he might be able to be a good man again IF he has someone there to pull him back and show him there's a better way. She's the only one he apparently listens to. Clara doesn't run out on those she cares about when they need her.
I know they said there wouldn't be any flirting between Clara and The Doctor, and there hasn't been as of yet to be fair, but I can't be the only one who thinks there's some romantic feelings between the two? That's the way it's coming across to me and I just don't know if it's intended or if I've totally got it wrong.
Nope. Just a deep friendship mostly born out of the man he was before. 11 and Clara were much closer but even if there's fractures now, it feels like Clara is too entwined with him emotionally to just leave. And he only really seems to care about her and no one else. He knows deep down that he needs her around.
Clara figured out that the Doctor has become rather addicted to making these life or death decisions. Danny's words didn't come into it at all - she was distracted throughout their conversation and 'blamed' him for her wanting to leave in the first place. She lied. It was heavily implied that having figured out what's wrong with the Doctor she can't leave - she needs to stay in order to help fix him. She's just seen him about to let another person die without care and he only stopped because she shamed him into doing so. Clara thinks she can help the Doctor.
I don't think Clara shammed him into saving Maisie I think that was always his plan but
1> He wasn't sure it would work and yes in that case he would have just shrugged his shoulders and moved on to the next one
2> He didn't want Gus getting wind of his plan and he had no idea if the Mummy would know either if he let them in on it due to knowing mental issues it's possible that the mummy has some telepathic abilities.
He did lie but lied about her having no chance at all.
Plus again by making Clara "lie" it showed her that sometimes you have to make bad choices for the overall good and if he had of left them where they were she would have died anyway .
I flippin' loved that, sorry its not a more in depth review but its definitely my favourite episode of this run so far, can't think of anything that grated, just thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved Capaldi before but I adore him now he was just brilliant in this. An excellent from me.
I flippin' loved that, sorry its not a more in depth review but its definitely my favourite episode of this run so far, can't think of anything that grated, just thoroughly enjoyed it. I loved Capaldi before but I adore him now he was just brilliant in this. An excellent from me.
Every week I fall in love with him just a little bit more, he is perfection in every scene.
Clara figured out that the Doctor has become rather addicted to making these life or death decisions. Danny's words didn't come into it at all - she was distracted throughout their conversation and 'blamed' him for her wanting to leave in the first place. She lied. It was heavily implied that having figured out what's wrong with the Doctor she can't leave - she needs to stay in order to help fix him. She's just seen him about to let another person die without care and he only stopped because she shamed him into doing so. Clara thinks she can help the Doctor.
I agree with the Mikey1980 - it's Clara who's addicted. She's not staying for the Doctor. She's staying because she doesn't want to give it up. She tried after the Moon incident and couldn't.
I also disagree that the Doctor only saved Maisie because Clara shamed him into it. He saved her because he could - at that time he had put together enough of the puzzle (how the mummy selected its victims and that it was draining their energy) that he could start to intervene.
With the previous deaths there was nothing he could do. It wasn't that he didn't want to save them; he just wasn't able to. And the difficult decision he had to make was therefore to accept the inevitable but try to get as much helpful intelligence from each death as he could.
That was bloody fantastic! It vastly exceeded my expectations.
Whilst I don't think it's a perfect 10/10, I'm just struck at how pleased I was with all aspects of the story:
-Capaldi was, once again, on top form as was Jenna.
-The Foretold was a brilliant monster.
-The "science" was no-where near as ludicrous as last week
-The mystery was developed well and, most importantly, resolved in a satisfactory way; no "love saves everything" or blatant silliness and it was actually the Doctor Who saved the day and not Clara.
- I was very happy with the revelation that the Foretold was an ancient soldier. It felt like a very satisfactory explanation which made sense (and it also reminded me of the Ikana from Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask)
-I know others may disagree, but I thought the sub-plot about the Doctor and Clara's relationship was handled very well. It was nice to see some actual character development.
-I was very satisfied that the people who died stayed dead and weren't brought back to life (as is something which happens frequently in Doctor Who) meaning its emotional and dramatic impact wasn't lessened. That said, I think the opportunity to develop the "Promised Land" arc a bit further was missed. It would have been nice to see a short clip at the end to deepen the mystery.
-Murray Gold's score was, once again, brilliant
-I loved the "start the clock" 66 seconds plot device. It was innovative and I never got tired of it.
-Frank Skinner was great as Perkins. I'd definitely like to see more of him.
Without a doubt one of the best of the series.
9.5/10
I know they said there wouldn't be any flirting between Clara and The Doctor, and there hasn't been as of yet to be fair, but I can't be the only one who thinks there's some romantic feelings between the two? That's the way it's coming across to me and I just don't know if it's intended or if I've totally got it wrong.
Why does it have to be romantic? Im sure most of us have very good friends of the opposite sex that arent a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/lover ect.
As far as I can see they are good friends that have gone though a bad patch.
There is definitely a Tom Baker vibe about Capaldi's Doctor and it was used perfectly in this episode with help from a few classic visual nods. Mummies, Mummies Sarcophagus with glowing lights inside..oh and jelly babies. When Clara is in bed in her cabin and The Doctor is talking to himself in his I swear I could almost hear Baker's Doctor..
Even some of the music had some of the Classic series 70's vibe
I agree with the Mikey1980 - it's Clara who's addicted. She's not staying for the Doctor. She's staying because she doesn't want to give it up. She tried after the Moon incident and couldn't.
Oh of course she is. Jenna said as much and so did Clara. The point is though she nearly did give it up UNTIL he admitted that. It was the catalyst.
I also disagree that the Doctor only saved Maisie because Clara shamed him into it. He saved her because he could - at that time he had put together enough of the puzzle (how the mummy selected its victims and that it was draining their energy) that he could start to intervene.
I disagree entirely. He showed no hint that he was even going to until Clara called him out on it. He discovered nothing new between telling Clara to bring her there and suddenly deciding to call her memories into him.
IF he intended to save her all along then he would've told Clara rather than saying that he couldn't. He's not an idiot, he knew she'd not like the idea and he risked her trying to get Maisie into the TARDIS. He only changed his mind and decided to when Clara pointed out how he wasn't even trying. That's his problem - he's not looking for a way to save the individual. He's ignoring them or seeing them as collateral and seeing only big picture. It's Clara forcing him to look down every now and again and that seems to be rather the point of their interactions right now. The whole 'am I a good man thing'.
I disagree entirely. He showed no hint that he was even going to until Clara called him out on it. He discovered nothing new between telling Clara to bring her there and suddenly deciding to call her memories into him.
IF he intended to save her all along then he would've told Clara rather than saying that he couldn't. He's not an idiot, he knew she'd not like the idea and he risked her trying to get Maisie into the TARDIS. He only changed his mind and decided to when Clara pointed out how he wasn't even trying. That's his problem - he's not looking for a way to save the individual. He's ignoring them or seeing them as collateral and seeing only big picture. It's Clara forcing him to look down every now and again and that seems to be rather the point of their interactions right now. The whole 'am I a good man thing'.
Think about what your saying
What's more likely he thought of putting Maisie's memories into himself on the spot and programmed the devise in a few seconds or that was his plan all along and he lied to Clara to stop anyone else (Gus-The Mummy) from knowing what his real plan was.
Oh of course she is. Jenna said as much and so did Clara. The point is though she nearly did give it up UNTIL he admitted that. It was the catalyst.
I disagree entirely. He showed no hint that he was even going to until Clara called him out on it. He discovered nothing new between telling Clara to bring her there and suddenly deciding to call her memories into him.
IF he intended to save her all along then he would've told Clara rather than saying that he couldn't. He's not an idiot, he knew she'd not like the idea and he risked her trying to get Maisie into the TARDIS. He only changed his mind and decided to when Clara pointed out how he wasn't even trying. That's his problem - he's not looking for a way to save the individual. He's ignoring them or seeing them as collateral and seeing only big picture. It's Clara forcing him to look down every now and again and that seems to be rather the point of their interactions right now. The whole 'am I a good man thing'.
Sorry - you haven't convinced me at all that you're interpretation of Clara staying is correct -so we'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that in the earlier episodes she stayed to help the Doctor (because that is what 11 asked her to do) - but after the big blow up last week I believe she came back for one 'last hurrah' because she missed the adventure. And the 'last hurrah' reminded her just how much she missed it. She can't give it up.
As for Maisie he explained pretty clearly in the beach scene that he didn't know for sure if he could save Maisie and he didn't want Gus to know his plan so that's why he didn't tell Clara.
During their first phone call (when she was on her bed) IIRC he did say something like if you are enjoying it you don't have to stop,
Which is the opposite of controlling - he's encouraging her to do something she enjoys (going off with a time traveling alien into life and death adventures) if she wants to. I wouldn't think many people would do that, man or woman for their potential other half, especially if they'd been lied to up till then about what they were doing in the first place. I'm liking Danny more all the time and hoping Clara doesn't screw up their relationship any more than she has already.
Oh of course she is. Jenna said as much and so did Clara. The point is though she nearly did give it up UNTIL he admitted that. It was the catalyst.
I disagree entirely. He showed no hint that he was even going to until Clara called him out on it. He discovered nothing new between telling Clara to bring her there and suddenly deciding to call her memories into him.
IF he intended to save her all along then he would've told Clara rather than saying that he couldn't. He's not an idiot, he knew she'd not like the idea and he risked her trying to get Maisie into the TARDIS. He only changed his mind and decided to when Clara pointed out how he wasn't even trying. That's his problem - he's not looking for a way to save the individual. He's ignoring them or seeing them as collateral and seeing only big picture. It's Clara forcing him to look down every now and again and that seems to be rather the point of their interactions right now. The whole 'am I a good man thing'.
Throughout the series, you've consistently said you believe that 12 is a dislikeable character - and that seems to be your pre-determined default position.
But what's clear from the past two episodes is that it's actually Clara who has big problems: she's emotionally immature, she's a liar who is currently lying to her boyfriend and the Doctor, and she's also a control freak. What I think we saw at the end was a sheepish Clara realising that she needs the Doctor. It was nothing to do with her thinking she can fix him.
Comments
Don't stop her now - she's having such a good time!
I thought so.
As for the episode itself I thoroughly enjoyed it. And again there is so much going on with Capaldi performance I instantly want to watch him again. Loved the impatient 'Hurry up' hand gesture as he held it out for the 'Alien/Myths' Professor to shake. I mentioned a while back that Capaldi' Doctor really suited the 70's white sci-fi vibe so it was wonderful to see him come so alive once the Orient Express decor illusion dropped.
There is definitely a Tom Baker vibe about Capaldi's Doctor and it was used perfectly in this episode with help from a few classic visual nods. Mummies, Mummies Sarcophagus with glowing lights inside..oh and jelly babies. When Clara is in bed in her cabin and The Doctor is talking to himself in his I swear I could almost hear Baker's Doctor.
I thought the basic concept of the episode was very interesting and played out well enough to forgive the sometimes inevitable rushed conclusions. The secondary characters were nicely written. I do wonder how tighter the actual story could have been in the good old fashioned stand alone style without having to make space for 2 big Doctor/Clara chats towards the end and the Danny/Clara inserts. At the moment they tend to distract rather than add. That said, once those arcs play out at the end of the series they might sit a little better with hindsight.
Certainly worth a rewatch.
I can't read it like that at all tbh. There were some very pointed lines about Clara saying he was addicted to making those decisions and nothing about her realising he's still a good man beneath it all. Directly after those revelations about his 'addictions' which he fails to deny, THEN she decides to say. It's an obvious cause and effect.
She seems to believe that he might be able to be a good man again IF he has someone there to pull him back and show him there's a better way. She's the only one he apparently listens to. Clara doesn't run out on those she cares about when they need her.
Nope. Just a deep friendship mostly born out of the man he was before. 11 and Clara were much closer but even if there's fractures now, it feels like Clara is too entwined with him emotionally to just leave. And he only really seems to care about her and no one else. He knows deep down that he needs her around.
I don't think Clara shammed him into saving Maisie I think that was always his plan but
1> He wasn't sure it would work and yes in that case he would have just shrugged his shoulders and moved on to the next one
2> He didn't want Gus getting wind of his plan and he had no idea if the Mummy would know either if he let them in on it due to knowing mental issues it's possible that the mummy has some telepathic abilities.
He did lie but lied about her having no chance at all.
Plus again by making Clara "lie" it showed her that sometimes you have to make bad choices for the overall good and if he had of left them where they were she would have died anyway .
I agree with the Mikey1980 - it's Clara who's addicted. She's not staying for the Doctor. She's staying because she doesn't want to give it up. She tried after the Moon incident and couldn't.
I also disagree that the Doctor only saved Maisie because Clara shamed him into it. He saved her because he could - at that time he had put together enough of the puzzle (how the mummy selected its victims and that it was draining their energy) that he could start to intervene.
With the previous deaths there was nothing he could do. It wasn't that he didn't want to save them; he just wasn't able to. And the difficult decision he had to make was therefore to accept the inevitable but try to get as much helpful intelligence from each death as he could.
Anyway - loved the episode
Maybe she should try for the hatrick and get killed by a werewolf next time
Another actress to join the list of people who have appeared in both versions of Who
I did offer him (or her) some screen-caps of Dot Cotton's feet soaking away in a bowl of water...
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1363980&highlight=actress+feet
Whilst I don't think it's a perfect 10/10, I'm just struck at how pleased I was with all aspects of the story:
-Capaldi was, once again, on top form as was Jenna.
-The Foretold was a brilliant monster.
-The "science" was no-where near as ludicrous as last week
-The mystery was developed well and, most importantly, resolved in a satisfactory way; no "love saves everything" or blatant silliness and it was actually the Doctor Who saved the day and not Clara.
- I was very happy with the revelation that the Foretold was an ancient soldier. It felt like a very satisfactory explanation which made sense (and it also reminded me of the Ikana from Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask)
-I know others may disagree, but I thought the sub-plot about the Doctor and Clara's relationship was handled very well. It was nice to see some actual character development.
-I was very satisfied that the people who died stayed dead and weren't brought back to life (as is something which happens frequently in Doctor Who) meaning its emotional and dramatic impact wasn't lessened. That said, I think the opportunity to develop the "Promised Land" arc a bit further was missed. It would have been nice to see a short clip at the end to deepen the mystery.
-Murray Gold's score was, once again, brilliant
-I loved the "start the clock" 66 seconds plot device. It was innovative and I never got tired of it.
-Frank Skinner was great as Perkins. I'd definitely like to see more of him.
Without a doubt one of the best of the series.
9.5/10
Why does it have to be romantic? Im sure most of us have very good friends of the opposite sex that arent a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse/lover ect.
As far as I can see they are good friends that have gone though a bad patch.
Even some of the music had some of the Classic series 70's vibe
Great script, scariest mummy in the series (even though this one's flat-chested and needs a Sutekh's Wonderbra), and great direction.
Oh of course she is. Jenna said as much and so did Clara. The point is though she nearly did give it up UNTIL he admitted that. It was the catalyst.
I disagree entirely. He showed no hint that he was even going to until Clara called him out on it. He discovered nothing new between telling Clara to bring her there and suddenly deciding to call her memories into him.
IF he intended to save her all along then he would've told Clara rather than saying that he couldn't. He's not an idiot, he knew she'd not like the idea and he risked her trying to get Maisie into the TARDIS. He only changed his mind and decided to when Clara pointed out how he wasn't even trying. That's his problem - he's not looking for a way to save the individual. He's ignoring them or seeing them as collateral and seeing only big picture. It's Clara forcing him to look down every now and again and that seems to be rather the point of their interactions right now. The whole 'am I a good man thing'.
Think about what your saying
What's more likely he thought of putting Maisie's memories into himself on the spot and programmed the devise in a few seconds or that was his plan all along and he lied to Clara to stop anyone else (Gus-The Mummy) from knowing what his real plan was.
Will have to watch again on a large screen but just one question.....was Gus' screen avatar a fob watch?
Sorry - you haven't convinced me at all that you're interpretation of Clara staying is correct -so we'll have to agree to disagree. I agree that in the earlier episodes she stayed to help the Doctor (because that is what 11 asked her to do) - but after the big blow up last week I believe she came back for one 'last hurrah' because she missed the adventure. And the 'last hurrah' reminded her just how much she missed it. She can't give it up.
As for Maisie he explained pretty clearly in the beach scene that he didn't know for sure if he could save Maisie and he didn't want Gus to know his plan so that's why he didn't tell Clara.
Which is the opposite of controlling - he's encouraging her to do something she enjoys (going off with a time traveling alien into life and death adventures) if she wants to. I wouldn't think many people would do that, man or woman for their potential other half, especially if they'd been lied to up till then about what they were doing in the first place. I'm liking Danny more all the time and hoping Clara doesn't screw up their relationship any more than she has already.
Throughout the series, you've consistently said you believe that 12 is a dislikeable character - and that seems to be your pre-determined default position.
But what's clear from the past two episodes is that it's actually Clara who has big problems: she's emotionally immature, she's a liar who is currently lying to her boyfriend and the Doctor, and she's also a control freak. What I think we saw at the end was a sheepish Clara realising that she needs the Doctor. It was nothing to do with her thinking she can fix him.