This PES v FIFA debate could and probably will go on for ages. I don't own PES so won't comment on which is actually better but I will say that I have always enjoyed FIFA, regardless of winning or losing.
All this "scripting" nonsense is really getting on my nerves, if it was scripted then why would it sometimes go in your favour and sometimes against you? That is the reality of football; it won't always go your way, games won't always be easy. I find on Career Mode I tend to win around 75% of games I play, which is about the right amount. I don't find it so easy that I get bored and equally I don't struggle so much that I find it unplayable.
Instead of bringing in the PES v FIFA rubbish, can both parties just accept that they prefer one or the other and the other party doesn't? At the end of the day, it's all just a matter of opinion; there is no proof either way that scripting does or doesn't exist and until there is then the whole argument is pointless. So please just shut up about the "scripting" and talk about the game you prefer.
If only every followed this advice, you won't see me commenting on the new PES (unless I get it for some reason)
you have big fifa fans talking about sctipting so it is silly to make it about pes vs fifa.
and it helps both you win and lose at different times so that everyone is happy, its a balancing mechanism to make sure everyone wins and that novices can enjoy it. you point that its only scripting if you always lose makes no sense. its not like they see what your gamertag is and stat a crusade against you lol. its scripting on a large scale,not user centric. all just my opinion of course.
also if scripting wasnt that bad why are there no huge discussions about it for other footy games? but type in fifa scripting and you gets loads of results on google(About 1,310,000 results (0.58 seconds) ). could it be that only with this particular franchise fans misunderstand what luck is? hummmmmmmm
What is it that would convince you that scripting isn't real? what could be presented to you to prove that random events are random, something keepers have an amazing match sometimes they don't, sometimes defences are terrible sometimes they don't put a foot wrong, sometimes everyone is ronaldo when shooting sometimes they aren't, that is true in real football and FIFA, so what is the problem?
What would convince me that it wasn't real would be if FIFA 15 Seasons behaved exactly the same as FIFA 15 Match Lobbies but the simple fact is it doesn't. Seasons has weighting (maybe it's intended to make it exciting that it's coming down to the last game of the season who knows?) Match Lobbies doesn't.
For the record I haven't played PES in many years. I have a shelf of FIFA games going back to FIFA 09 and I love FIFA. I never made a single comment about "scripting" on FIFA 14 because I just played Head To Head online games where it just doesn't happen. I played Seasons for ages on FIFA 13 and was just putting up with the "scripting" thinking all modes would be the same, a mate mentioned to me that Head To Head was different, I played it and it was, from then on that was all I played hence not touching Seasons on FIFA 14. It's only the removal of Head To Head (WHY?) and how poor the Match Lobbies are that made me try Seasons again. Sadly, nothing has changed.
you have big fifa fans talking about sctipting so it is silly to make it about pes vs fifa.
and it helps both you win and lose at different times so that everyone is happy, its a balancing mechanism to make sure everyone wins and that novices can enjoy it. you point that its only scripting if you always lose makes no sense. its not like they see what your gamertag is and stat a crusade against you lol. its scripting on a large scale,not user centric. all just my opinion of course.
also if scripting wasnt that bad why are there no huge discussions about it for other footy games? but type in fifa scripting and you gets loads of results on google(About 1,310,000 results (0.58 seconds) ). could it be that only with this particular franchise fans misunderstand what luck is? hummmmmmmm
Hmm, I wonder why loads of results could possibly come up for 'FIFA scripting'? It's clearly talked about a lot; doesn't mean it definitely exists though, does it? And due to it being a popular game that is bought by many people, it will obviously come under scrutiny a lot, particularly by people who are not fans of the game themselves.
It's a pointless discussion when people don't listen to each other, but I do feel like some are looking at it more objectively and it's nice to see some people changing their minds (both ways).
To try to clarify the debate:
For Scripting
1) People experience what they feel are unfair (for and against) circumstances and put it down to the game "cheating" to influence the result.
2) Because a number of people apply to (1) they take this as proof.
3) There is a perceived difference for some between different game modes.
4) There are occasions where the perceived cheating has similar symptoms, such as hitting the post frequently.
Against Scripting
1) There is no real evidence, only circumstantial.
2) EA have directly denied its existence.
3) There is no clear reason why EA would write such scripting (this one is clearly critical).
4) There are a number of people who do not experience the "cheating" effect.
5) The reports of "scripting" change from person to person; some believe the goalkeepers are boosted, some that they players are slowed down/sped up, some that shooting is boosted/decreased, some that the ball is "magnetised" to drop to defenders/attackers instead of following a natural course. These differences are not consistent, as they would be should scripting be real.
Additional arguments put forward as proof are counterable. For example; there are lots of reports found if you search "FIFA Scripting". This is not proof; you will get considerably more hits for "9-11 conspiracy", but this is no mark of reality. The other main argument is that lots of people believe it in; as I've said before relate this to religion. The majority of the global population in all history of mankind have believed in a god, yet either 99% or 100% of them are wrong (as at best only one religion is correct; or none at all). Widespread belief is not proof. It's also unclear just how widespread this belief is; a sample of internet comments is not nearly large enough to be considered representative.
On the counter side, there is a phenomenon which exists; scripting is a somewhat plausible explanation. The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology. As it's generally accepted that the simplest answer is usually the right one (Occam's Razor), the logical and objective conclusion would be the latter.
Finally it's again worth noting that we can't be sure either way, so no gain by stating one way or another as absolute fact. We can only take reasoned opinion from the evidence available.
It's a pointless discussion when people don't listen to each other, but I do feel like some are looking at it more objectively and it's nice to see some people changing their minds (both ways).
To try to clarify the debate:
For Scripting
1) People experience what they feel are unfair (for and against) circumstances and put it down to the game "cheating" to influence the result.
2) Because a number of people apply to (1) they take this as proof.
3) There is a perceived difference for some between different game modes.
4) There are occasions where the perceived cheating has similar symptoms, such as hitting the post frequently.
Against Scripting
1) There is no real evidence, only circumstantial.
2) EA have directly denied its existence.
3) There is no clear reason why EA would write such scripting (this one is clearly critical).
4) There are a number of people who do not experience the "cheating" effect.
5) The reports of "scripting" change from person to person; some believe the goalkeepers are boosted, some that they players are slowed down/sped up, some that shooting is boosted/decreased, some that the ball is "magnetised" to drop to defenders/attackers instead of following a natural course. These differences are not consistent, as they would be should scripting be real.
Additional arguments put forward as proof are counterable. For example; there are lots of reports found if you search "FIFA Scripting". This is not proof; you will get considerably more hits for "9-11 conspiracy", but this is no mark of reality. The other main argument is that lots of people believe it in; as I've said before relate this to religion. The majority of the global population in all history of mankind have believed in a god, yet either 99% or 100% of them are wrong (as at best only one religion is correct; or none at all). Widespread belief is not proof. It's also unclear just how widespread this belief is; a sample of internet comments is not nearly large enough to be considered representative.
On the counter side, there is a phenomenon which exists; scripting is a somewhat plausible explanation. The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology. As it's generally accepted that the simplest answer is usually the right one (Occam's Razor), the logical and objective conclusion would be the latter.
Finally it's again worth noting that we can't be sure either way, so no gain by stating one way or another as absolute fact. We can only take reasoned opinion from the evidence available.
Great post; sums up both arguments perfectly, without showing bias to one or the other. Hopefully this shall be the end of it, though no doubt whedon247 will have something to say about that.
The post compares the belief of 'scripting' to religion. Even when Mojo make his own counter argument he says this:
The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology.
Sounds pretty biased towards there being no scripting to me.
I don't know either way. I do believe that EA have cocked up the AI terribly this year as i actually find Ultimate difficulty easier than World class, and i do think that luck plays a big part of the game.But what i do know is that the argument that EA have no reason to put scripting in the game is invalid. It's quite obvious why there could be scripting, its the same reason why some racing games have catch up or 'rubber banding', to make the games closer and more enjoyable.No one likes losing 7-0 and it would probably put a lot off the game if they were being constantly dominated by more experienced players.
Even when Mojo make his own counter argument he says this:
The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology. Sounds pretty biased towards there being no scripting to me.
It's quite obvious why there could be scripting, its the same reason why some racing games have catch up or 'rubber banding', to make the games closer and more enjoyable.No one likes losing 7-0 and it would probably put a lot off the game if they were being constantly dominated by more experienced players.
First bit - let me know what extra "pro-scripting" arguments you would add and let me know, I'll happily add it to the summary if it isn't repetition. I can understand why you see it as a biased view because I have come to a conclusion within the summary; I've weighed up the evidence and to me (and therefore in my writing) the answer is that it doesn't exist. So that's how I've laid out the conclusion.
Second bit - this would be a good answer if it was treating someone who was 3-0 down with extra luck/stats etc, but not randomly right from the off? The equivalent in your racing game analogy wouldn't be rubber banding, it would be to randomly give three of the ten cars better tyres and quicker engines from the start, not rubber-banding them back together when one builds a lead.
If making games closer so as not to make "poorer" players fed up with being tanked every game you would develop a match-making system to allow similar level players to compete, not some complicated system which makes the ball automatically bounce back to the poor player and hit the woodwork ten times a game for the better one. Also why would it be random, as to how it helps/hinders you? I personally don't buy this as an explanation.
The post compares the belief of 'scripting' to religion.
Missed this bit, sorry.
I don't quite do that, I use religion as a way of showing up the "proof" that if lots of people believe in it then it must be true. Religion is a great example of how this is patently false because it must be; no matter which one you pick all the others throughout the entire history of Man are wrong, yet that means billions of people believe in something which is 100% false.
Every FIFA player in the history of the universe could believe in it, but it wouldn't make it any more or less true.
The post compares the belief of 'scripting' to religion. Even when Mojo make his own counter argument he says this:
The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology.
Sounds pretty biased towards there being no scripting to me.
I don't know either way. I do believe that EA have cocked up the AI terribly this year as i actually find Ultimate difficulty easier than World class, and i do think that luck plays a big part of the game.But what i do know is that the argument that EA have no reason to put scripting in the game is invalid. It's quite obvious why there could be scripting, its the same reason why some racing games have catch up or 'rubber banding', to make the games closer and more enjoyable.No one likes losing 7-0 and it would probably put a lot off the game if they were being constantly dominated by more experienced players.
well said. bias post called out correctly.
really is a sore point for some people it seems,sorry i brought it up! its the weekend guys, enjoy!
2) EA have directly denied its existence.
5) The reports of "scripting" change from person to person; some believe the goalkeepers are boosted, some that they players are slowed down/sped up, some that shooting is boosted/decreased, some that the ball is "magnetised" to drop to defenders/attackers instead of following a natural course. These differences are not consistent, as they would be should scripting be real.
2) I remember a guy posting on these forums who claimed to have worked on FIFA and said they did put scripting in to balance things up. Obviously whether he was for real is another matter.
5) If scripting is real then reports of how it is affecting people's games don't have to be consistent, since no one knows exactly how it works. If shots are constantly being parried by goalkeepers when they were flying in during the previous game, then one person could claim their striker's stats have decreased while another could say it's because the goalkeeper's attributes have increased. The "magnetising" effect could be another factor alongside the effect on stats, but on person could just notice one rather than the other.
Personally, I've noticed so much luck going against me in strange ways that I'd say I'm 75% in favour of the pro-scripting argument. I'm not a bad FIFA player either, usually always making it to division 1 in Seasons, so I don't use it as an excuse for why I'm not better at the game, it's just something I've noticed.
I'm probably going to sell Fifa when PES somes out. 90% of my matches online are so laggy that they're unplayable. Never had this problem with PES before. I'm only interested in playing online so it's a real deal breaker for me.
First bit - let me know what extra "pro-scripting" arguments you would add and let me know,
Like i said, i don't know if scripting is a real thing , i was merely pointing out that your viewpoint wasn't as balanced as the previous poster suggested. You countered your own counter argument.
For the record, i did think it was a good post.It was just obvious from it that you think scripting is fictional.
Second bit - this would be a good answer if it was treating someone who was 3-0 down with extra luck/stats etc, but not randomly right from the off? The equivalent in your racing game analogy wouldn't be rubber banding, it would be to randomly give three of the ten cars better tyres and quicker engines from the start, not rubber-banding them back together when one builds a lead..
But it isn't from the off is it? Some have mentioned before that this scripting effect works prominently when they have won a few games in a row and only need a couple of wins for promotion for example, So the analogy of the racing game with the car in front, i thought , was accurate.Some have also mentioned that they have suddenly become poor in the latter stages of games too, so this would also be the same.
EA of course, would never admit that this is in place. Ultimate team and the massive amount of money EA earn from it is based on getting the best players in the best possible positions and some are willing to spend hundreds or even thousands of pounds investing in this mode.There would be uproar if this investment meant nothing as the next silver team you come up against suddenly outplayed, outpaced, and out scored you when you needed one or two more wins for promotion. It's not nice having Diego Costa hit row Z with every shot for you while Peter Crouch puts in a hat-trick against you with 3 shots total.
I'm done with FIFA this year so going to switch over. £28.99 in Argos via Hot UK deals if anyones interested...
Is that the PS4 version?
PS3 version at Argos is 27.99.
After deserting to Fifa in 2009, I am now fed up as well with the Fifa series. I love the PES2015 PS3 demo gameplay. Hopefully will order from Argos or pick up a copy on release day.
Is that the PS4 version?
PS3 version at Argos is 27.99.
After deserting to Fifa in 2009, I am now fed up as well with the Fifa series. I love the PES2015 PS3 demo gameplay. Hopefully will order from Argos or pick up a copy on release day.
Yeah, originally £34.99 on PS4, but there was a couple of voucher codes on Hot UK deals which brought it down to £28.99
Im the same, switched to fifa back in 2009 but cant get on with this years at all.
Reviews are out today. Im going to keep my eye on them as £28-30 for PES is a great price.
First review in from Eurogamer giving 9/10.
Gameplay is spot on, it might not have all the bells and whistles like Fifa but I'm interested on pitch play.
Hopefully they have worked on the pass logic like they said they would, makes me mad when im about to play the killer through ball down the middle and it passes out wide or even backwards.
rave reviews everywhere it seems, lowest i have found is 8/10
lisa there is no passing delay i have seen? unless count animation time of trapping hard to cotnrol balls once in a while which is a downside of fans screaming for more realism i guess.
also
'Further highlighting the idea that PES is aimed more at football nerds than casual fans''.
Comments
If only every followed this advice, you won't see me commenting on the new PES (unless I get it for some reason)
and it helps both you win and lose at different times so that everyone is happy, its a balancing mechanism to make sure everyone wins and that novices can enjoy it. you point that its only scripting if you always lose makes no sense. its not like they see what your gamertag is and stat a crusade against you lol. its scripting on a large scale,not user centric. all just my opinion of course.
also if scripting wasnt that bad why are there no huge discussions about it for other footy games? but type in fifa scripting and you gets loads of results on google(About 1,310,000 results (0.58 seconds) ). could it be that only with this particular franchise fans misunderstand what luck is? hummmmmmmm
What would convince me that it wasn't real would be if FIFA 15 Seasons behaved exactly the same as FIFA 15 Match Lobbies but the simple fact is it doesn't. Seasons has weighting (maybe it's intended to make it exciting that it's coming down to the last game of the season who knows?) Match Lobbies doesn't.
For the record I haven't played PES in many years. I have a shelf of FIFA games going back to FIFA 09 and I love FIFA. I never made a single comment about "scripting" on FIFA 14 because I just played Head To Head online games where it just doesn't happen. I played Seasons for ages on FIFA 13 and was just putting up with the "scripting" thinking all modes would be the same, a mate mentioned to me that Head To Head was different, I played it and it was, from then on that was all I played hence not touching Seasons on FIFA 14. It's only the removal of Head To Head (WHY?) and how poor the Match Lobbies are that made me try Seasons again. Sadly, nothing has changed.
Jambo has already states he dont play pes, how are you gonna about hom down I wonder?
No one can prove it, just a discussion. dont need to be a winner and a loser to it all.
To try to clarify the debate:
For Scripting
1) People experience what they feel are unfair (for and against) circumstances and put it down to the game "cheating" to influence the result.
2) Because a number of people apply to (1) they take this as proof.
3) There is a perceived difference for some between different game modes.
4) There are occasions where the perceived cheating has similar symptoms, such as hitting the post frequently.
Against Scripting
1) There is no real evidence, only circumstantial.
2) EA have directly denied its existence.
3) There is no clear reason why EA would write such scripting (this one is clearly critical).
4) There are a number of people who do not experience the "cheating" effect.
5) The reports of "scripting" change from person to person; some believe the goalkeepers are boosted, some that they players are slowed down/sped up, some that shooting is boosted/decreased, some that the ball is "magnetised" to drop to defenders/attackers instead of following a natural course. These differences are not consistent, as they would be should scripting be real.
Additional arguments put forward as proof are counterable. For example; there are lots of reports found if you search "FIFA Scripting". This is not proof; you will get considerably more hits for "9-11 conspiracy", but this is no mark of reality. The other main argument is that lots of people believe it in; as I've said before relate this to religion. The majority of the global population in all history of mankind have believed in a god, yet either 99% or 100% of them are wrong (as at best only one religion is correct; or none at all). Widespread belief is not proof. It's also unclear just how widespread this belief is; a sample of internet comments is not nearly large enough to be considered representative.
On the counter side, there is a phenomenon which exists; scripting is a somewhat plausible explanation. The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology. As it's generally accepted that the simplest answer is usually the right one (Occam's Razor), the logical and objective conclusion would be the latter.
Finally it's again worth noting that we can't be sure either way, so no gain by stating one way or another as absolute fact. We can only take reasoned opinion from the evidence available.
No it doesn't
The post compares the belief of 'scripting' to religion. Even when Mojo make his own counter argument he says this:
The situation however can be much easier explained by psychology.
Sounds pretty biased towards there being no scripting to me.
I don't know either way. I do believe that EA have cocked up the AI terribly this year as i actually find Ultimate difficulty easier than World class, and i do think that luck plays a big part of the game.But what i do know is that the argument that EA have no reason to put scripting in the game is invalid. It's quite obvious why there could be scripting, its the same reason why some racing games have catch up or 'rubber banding', to make the games closer and more enjoyable.No one likes losing 7-0 and it would probably put a lot off the game if they were being constantly dominated by more experienced players.
First bit - let me know what extra "pro-scripting" arguments you would add and let me know, I'll happily add it to the summary if it isn't repetition. I can understand why you see it as a biased view because I have come to a conclusion within the summary; I've weighed up the evidence and to me (and therefore in my writing) the answer is that it doesn't exist. So that's how I've laid out the conclusion.
Second bit - this would be a good answer if it was treating someone who was 3-0 down with extra luck/stats etc, but not randomly right from the off? The equivalent in your racing game analogy wouldn't be rubber banding, it would be to randomly give three of the ten cars better tyres and quicker engines from the start, not rubber-banding them back together when one builds a lead.
If making games closer so as not to make "poorer" players fed up with being tanked every game you would develop a match-making system to allow similar level players to compete, not some complicated system which makes the ball automatically bounce back to the poor player and hit the woodwork ten times a game for the better one. Also why would it be random, as to how it helps/hinders you? I personally don't buy this as an explanation.
Missed this bit, sorry.
I don't quite do that, I use religion as a way of showing up the "proof" that if lots of people believe in it then it must be true. Religion is a great example of how this is patently false because it must be; no matter which one you pick all the others throughout the entire history of Man are wrong, yet that means billions of people believe in something which is 100% false.
Every FIFA player in the history of the universe could believe in it, but it wouldn't make it any more or less true.
well said. bias post called out correctly.
really is a sore point for some people it seems,sorry i brought it up! its the weekend guys, enjoy!
2) I remember a guy posting on these forums who claimed to have worked on FIFA and said they did put scripting in to balance things up. Obviously whether he was for real is another matter.
5) If scripting is real then reports of how it is affecting people's games don't have to be consistent, since no one knows exactly how it works. If shots are constantly being parried by goalkeepers when they were flying in during the previous game, then one person could claim their striker's stats have decreased while another could say it's because the goalkeeper's attributes have increased. The "magnetising" effect could be another factor alongside the effect on stats, but on person could just notice one rather than the other.
Personally, I've noticed so much luck going against me in strange ways that I'd say I'm 75% in favour of the pro-scripting argument. I'm not a bad FIFA player either, usually always making it to division 1 in Seasons, so I don't use it as an excuse for why I'm not better at the game, it's just something I've noticed.
Like i said, i don't know if scripting is a real thing , i was merely pointing out that your viewpoint wasn't as balanced as the previous poster suggested. You countered your own counter argument.
For the record, i did think it was a good post.It was just obvious from it that you think scripting is fictional.
But it isn't from the off is it? Some have mentioned before that this scripting effect works prominently when they have won a few games in a row and only need a couple of wins for promotion for example, So the analogy of the racing game with the car in front, i thought , was accurate.Some have also mentioned that they have suddenly become poor in the latter stages of games too, so this would also be the same.
EA of course, would never admit that this is in place. Ultimate team and the massive amount of money EA earn from it is based on getting the best players in the best possible positions and some are willing to spend hundreds or even thousands of pounds investing in this mode.There would be uproar if this investment meant nothing as the next silver team you come up against suddenly outplayed, outpaced, and out scored you when you needed one or two more wins for promotion. It's not nice having Diego Costa hit row Z with every shot for you while Peter Crouch puts in a hat-trick against you with 3 shots total.
I'm done with FIFA this year so going to switch over. £28.99 in Argos via Hot UK deals if anyones interested...
Is that the PS4 version?
PS3 version at Argos is 27.99.
After deserting to Fifa in 2009, I am now fed up as well with the Fifa series. I love the PES2015 PS3 demo gameplay. Hopefully will order from Argos or pick up a copy on release day.
Yeah, originally £34.99 on PS4, but there was a couple of voucher codes on Hot UK deals which brought it down to £28.99
Im the same, switched to fifa back in 2009 but cant get on with this years at all.
First review in from Eurogamer giving 9/10.
Gameplay is spot on, it might not have all the bells and whistles like Fifa but I'm interested on pitch play.
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/480734/first-pes-2015-reviews-go-live/
Although I'm concerned about some of the comments re the delay with passing
lisa there is no passing delay i have seen? unless count animation time of trapping hard to cotnrol balls once in a while which is a downside of fans screaming for more realism i guess.
also
'Further highlighting the idea that PES is aimed more at football nerds than casual fans''.
An extract from gamespot review.
i suppose gamespot are trolls now?