A guy at work voted UKIP. I asked him why. He said it was for their European policies. He said he hated their other policies but didn't feel any other party served his anti-EU views. That's fine with me. He wants UKIP just for that but not for their other questionable policies.
The trouble is we don't know what most of their other policies are ......Nigel Farage was asked on a TV programme earlier in the week why dont you say what more of your policies are.....his reply was we don't want to say because other parties will only pinch our ideas and that by next March we will have more of our policies on the table, nearer the election.....now until these are discussed and out in the open we will indeed wont know how people will react to them......
Most people are voting for UKIP atm because (not because they are against all immigration) its because what uncontrolled immigration does to our public services, housing and lowering wages....the main parties (especially Labour) don't get it and until they do UKIP will continue to get more and more popular....
And how much credit do you give the LibDems for opposing it?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
You are just taking your usual partisan approach. The Tories were not in power. Labour was. Labour produced the "evidence" for the invasion. The Tories were guilty of giving Blair too much credence. The blame lies firmly at his and his cronies' door, and no amount of revision will ever alter that.
A great deal. I think they gained a lot of credibility over it under Charles Kennedy (so much that I voted for him in 2010). In the 2005 election they increased their share of the vote by 3.7%, the number of votes almost 1.2 million and got 11 extra seats. The were the party that came out of it with honour intact and a much improved reputation. Unfortunately Nick Clegg has taken the Lib Dems back to the doldrums by his (and the rest of the LDs) lack of principles.
We're going very off topic and rehashing arguments, but the opposition did not do its job by questioning the data. We don't know what they would have done if they were in power, but we do know that only 15 of the Tory MPs rebelled. If the Tories had not supported the war, then the 139 Labour rebels would have helped defeat the government. I'm not absolving Blair of any blame, but the Tories cannot escape the blame either. We also know that while in power they have been happy to kill people in Libya and wanted to kill people in Syria, but were prevented by Labour and some government rebels.
But the blame cant be equal surely.....I don't disagree to some extent but it was Labours war, but as well as the war it was the state the country was left in as well and how it all was handled and now the aftermath.....every single decision in Iraq before during and now with the problems it is causing was wrong and I don't hold out much hope Chilcott will get to the bottom of it....because ultimately it was Labour that set the rules......
But the blame cant be equal surely.....I don't disagree to some extent but it was Labours war, but as well as the war it was the state the country was left in as well and how it all was handled and now the aftermath.....every single decision in Iraq before during and now with the problems it is causing was wrong and I don't hold out much hope Chilcott will get to the bottom of it....because ultimately it was Labour that set the rules......
And most of the current leading shadow cabinet members were around then - working for Blair and Brown.
I would certainly not refuse to be friends with a Labour supporter just because they support a party led by people who sanctioned illegal wars and effectively war crimes when families got bombed out of their homes.
Anything UKIP or the LDs may or may not have done pales into insignificance by comparison. And we should never let people forget it.
But the blame cant be equal surely.....I don't disagree to some extent but it was Labours war, but as well as the war it was the state the country was left in as well and how it all was handled and now the aftermath.....every single decision in Iraq before during and now with the problems it is causing was wrong and I don't hold out much hope Chilcott will get to the bottom of it....because ultimately it was Labour that set the rules......
I'm not saying it was equal and it is the reason Tony Blair is a figure of derision in the country these days. However, the Lib Dems saw through it but the Tories didn't. Does that mean the Lib Dems and the Labour (and 15 Tory) rebels were better that the leadership of the official opposition?
Put it this way, if the Tories had opposed the war, they would probably have been elected in 2005.
The trouble is we don't know what most of their other policies are ......Nigel Farage was asked on a TV programme earlier in the week why dont you say what more of your policies are.....his reply was we don't want to say because other parties will only pinch our ideas and that by next March we will have more of our policies on the table, nearer the election.....now until these are discussed and out in the open we will indeed wont know how people will react to them......
Most people are voting for UKIP atm because (not because they are against all immigration) its because what uncontrolled immigration does to our public services, housing and lowering wages....the main parties (especially Labour) don't get it and until they do UKIP will continue to get more and more popular....
Sure. That's why I don't trust them. UKIP are appealing to a particular type of person through being vague and yet applying to the 'pure' sensibilities they know some voters harbour. From the embarrassments caused by the utterances of many of its members, I don't think it looks promising. I can't see myself ever voting for them because I don't believe they are a party looking out for all the interests of all Brits. The recent by-election is proof to me of that.
A quarter of Britons would fall out with their friends if they discovered they were Ukip supporters, a poll has revealed.
this sentence is from the OP.
What's the betting this survey was carried out in the confines of metrosexual London, where everyone is oh-so liberal and no-one dares express an unfashionable opinion?
Two thins you never talk about in polite company. Religion or politics. Or so the old adage goes.
Two of our acquaintances barged into our home unannounced recently (they don't do knocking apparently) and a propos of nothing started mouthing off en masse about Eastern Europeans. Considering the two of them are both the children of Irish Immigrants I trotted out the "pot, kettle" argument and sent them packing.
We weren't particularly close to them anyway, but their lack of presence in our future social lives is no great loss.
Meanwhile they are reportedly dumbfounded that we don't agree with their POV...
You do seem to like stereotyping and pigeon holing groups of people. Don't elderly people who go to the pub also support Labour and the Tories or the SNP?
Careful - if you spend too much time looking down on people you will get a sore neck.
This from the poster who derides people who read the Guardian and come from Islington. You are a master of dealing in double standards and hypocritical statements.
This amuses me about Kipsters, they love to dish it out with the best of us but when UKIP gets some negative comments then the crying and wailing starts from the poor wee purple flowers. Grow a thick skin and grow up and get used to it.
ukip-ers are so delusional that everything os a lie or conspiracy .
As opposed to the totally rational theory that the only reason Labour are not storming home to a landslide is because the pig ignorant public have been mindwiped by a vast right wing media conspiracy that is deliberately blanking their very important tweets?
What's the betting this survey was carried out in the confines of metrosexual London, where everyone is oh-so liberal and no-one dares express an unfashionable opinion?
What's an unfashionable opinion? Can you give us an example of one, and why you think it's "unfashionable"? And are you saying it's bad to have an "unfashionable" opinion or that it's bad that some opinions are considered "unfashionable"?
What's an unfashionable opinion? Can you give us an example of one, and why you think it's "unfashionable"? And are you saying it's bad to have an "unfashionable" opinion or that it's bad that some opinions are considered "unfashionable"?
There's a good reason it's unfashionable...but like the unflattering and restraining garments of yesteryear. ...;-)
I think I'd feel a little sorry for some working class folk voting UKIP due to issues of Europe. UKIP are certainly not a party who'd represent the working class, quite the opposite, but they're the only party offering a realistic exit from Europe
Voting for a party to the right of the Tories, just to get out of Europe, is a very dangerous game.
For the working class, a UK under Tory/UKIP rule is far more scary than anything Europe could muster up.
or .......3 out of 4 people would not be bothered if their friend supported UKIP .
Or another way of looking at it is that 25% of the electorate absolutely would not vote UKIP then another 25% will not bother to vote which leaves UKIP with about 50% of the electorate to get their vote from. Add into that equation that UKIP are invisible in large parts of the country then the picture really is not that bright for the purple people.
I think I'd feel a little sorry for some working class folk voting UKIP due to issues of Europe. UKIP are certainly not a party who'd represent the working class, quite the opposite, but they're the only party offering a realistic exit from Europe
Voting for a party to the right of the Tories, just to get out of Europe, is a very dangerous game.
For the working class, a UK under Tory/UKIP rule is far more scary than anything Europe could muster up.
Oh really, so who are the party of the working classes then?;-)
This amuses me about Kipsters, they love to dish it out with the best of us but when UKIP gets some negative comments then the crying and wailing starts from the poor wee purple flowers.
I would certainly not refuse to be friends with a Labour supporter just because they support a party led by people who sanctioned illegal wars and effectively war crimes when families got bombed out of their homes.
Not too sure too many on here care what happens to "foreigners"....
Comments
That's a bit shallow of people. Do they also avoid shops and other businesses where UKIP supporters work ?
The trouble is we don't know what most of their other policies are ......Nigel Farage was asked on a TV programme earlier in the week why dont you say what more of your policies are.....his reply was we don't want to say because other parties will only pinch our ideas and that by next March we will have more of our policies on the table, nearer the election.....now until these are discussed and out in the open we will indeed wont know how people will react to them......
Most people are voting for UKIP atm because (not because they are against all immigration) its because what uncontrolled immigration does to our public services, housing and lowering wages....the main parties (especially Labour) don't get it and until they do UKIP will continue to get more and more popular....
Not UKIP though or the LDs.
Was that the answer you were expecting?
But the blame cant be equal surely.....I don't disagree to some extent but it was Labours war, but as well as the war it was the state the country was left in as well and how it all was handled and now the aftermath.....every single decision in Iraq before during and now with the problems it is causing was wrong and I don't hold out much hope Chilcott will get to the bottom of it....because ultimately it was Labour that set the rules......
And most of the current leading shadow cabinet members were around then - working for Blair and Brown.
I would certainly not refuse to be friends with a Labour supporter just because they support a party led by people who sanctioned illegal wars and effectively war crimes when families got bombed out of their homes.
Anything UKIP or the LDs may or may not have done pales into insignificance by comparison. And we should never let people forget it.
Put it this way, if the Tories had opposed the war, they would probably have been elected in 2005.
Sure. That's why I don't trust them. UKIP are appealing to a particular type of person through being vague and yet applying to the 'pure' sensibilities they know some voters harbour. From the embarrassments caused by the utterances of many of its members, I don't think it looks promising. I can't see myself ever voting for them because I don't believe they are a party looking out for all the interests of all Brits. The recent by-election is proof to me of that.
this sentence is from the OP.
see above. pretty obvious i think.
no matter what one exposes about ukip , ukip-ers are so delusional that everything os a lie or conspiracy .
Two of our acquaintances barged into our home unannounced recently (they don't do knocking apparently) and a propos of nothing started mouthing off en masse about Eastern Europeans. Considering the two of them are both the children of Irish Immigrants I trotted out the "pot, kettle" argument and sent them packing.
We weren't particularly close to them anyway, but their lack of presence in our future social lives is no great loss.
Meanwhile they are reportedly dumbfounded that we don't agree with their POV...
"delusional" do you own a mirror?
This from the poster who derides people who read the Guardian and come from Islington. You are a master of dealing in double standards and hypocritical statements.
This amuses me about Kipsters, they love to dish it out with the best of us but when UKIP gets some negative comments then the crying and wailing starts from the poor wee purple flowers. Grow a thick skin and grow up and get used to it.
As opposed to the totally rational theory that the only reason Labour are not storming home to a landslide is because the pig ignorant public have been mindwiped by a vast right wing media conspiracy that is deliberately blanking their very important tweets?
What's an unfashionable opinion? Can you give us an example of one, and why you think it's "unfashionable"? And are you saying it's bad to have an "unfashionable" opinion or that it's bad that some opinions are considered "unfashionable"?
There's a good reason it's unfashionable...but like the unflattering and restraining garments of yesteryear. ...;-)
Voting for a party to the right of the Tories, just to get out of Europe, is a very dangerous game.
For the working class, a UK under Tory/UKIP rule is far more scary than anything Europe could muster up.
Or 3 out of four would keep silent no matter whether they were concerned or not...which they might have to do depending on the circumstances.
Or another way of looking at it is that 25% of the electorate absolutely would not vote UKIP then another 25% will not bother to vote which leaves UKIP with about 50% of the electorate to get their vote from. Add into that equation that UKIP are invisible in large parts of the country then the picture really is not that bright for the purple people.
Oh really, so who are the party of the working classes then?;-)
Ho, ho ,ho.
Not sure there really is one right now. What is for sure though, it's certainly not UKIP.
Not too sure too many on here care what happens to "foreigners"....