Unlikely to make much of a difference. Whenjobsareadvertisedonline, as most are now, then they are accessible from anywhere in Europe. I don't think Miliband is proposing that British people get interviewed first.
Who says jobs have to be advertised online? They could of course just be made available via UK job centres firstly,as i am sure your realise.;-)
Does anyone actually still use job centres these days? How quaint.
And even if a uk job seeker had have looked online at this job agency unless you could read polish, you would not have seen them as they were not in the engilsh section. And did not come on nexts website for 2 weeks after they were advertised in poland. Last month, Polish website flamejobs announced: “Dear All. The *recruitment for Next warehouses has started.”
There was no mention of these jobs on the English language section of the website.
But – in Polish only – it invited people to an open day at offices in Warsaw.
The ad was seen by the Mirror on November 3 and the recruitment session took place three days later.
We monitored the careers pages of the Next website and two UK *recruitment agencies and it was nearly two weeks after the open day before these jobs were on offer here.
But they were offered to them, and they are still being offered to them and there are 100 vacancies unfilled...
It makes you wonder how much of the local unemployment is genuine in that case.
Either there is a shortage of jobs (=unemployment) or a shortage of local labour willing to accept the money on offer, in which case the taxpayer will meanwhile pay for the local labour to continue being unemployed (and employers will look outside the local area for labour willing to work for the money they offer).
That though is primarily a domestic issue, not an EU one, and requires the government here to look at what is "real" unemployment and/or the minimum wage levels and/or skills training for the unemployed.
More likely though is they'll blame the Poles as it is easier than tackling any of that...
conditions can often put a big part of the equation in warehouse type jobs, management in those companys are simply rubbish, and treat the staff exactly the same, sort that out, and they might have a better reputation in their local community's
Some people writing on this thread do not seem to have a clue about or indeed any experience of these so called employers that advertise warehouse and factory jobs.
My OH is Lithuanian, the first couple of years of her working here was spent working for agencies that in turn contracted to supposedly reputable companies.
Her employment was cancelled on the last minute many times, even when she had arrived at the premises ready to work and after spending time and bus fares getting there.
Other times she was sent home mid way through her shift with no explanation and expected to break basic H&S rules such as lifting heavy 15kg boxes well above head height or working non stop on a production line in warm conditions for 6 hours without so much as a glass of water.
At one factory the employer curtly rung the agency after my OH hurt her shoulder lifting the said boxes and demanded a replacement straightaway sending her home in tears ( he would not let her even record the incident in the accident book)
In addition she was hardly ever paid correctly or indeed sometimes paid at all, meaning she spent more time and money trying to extract her unpaid wages from agencies.
Employers would suddenly demand that employees work 12 hours instead of the agreed 8 hours towards the end of the shift with no extra premium rate of pay for the additional hours.
( If anyone has done fast moving production work then they will know 8 hours is enough for any person due to the constant repetitive movement needed for this type of work)
Of course some people will smugly claim that this is better than no work at all.
In that case we may as well class Britain as an offshore Bangladesh on the edge of Europe as we are supposed to be a civilised country.
My OH reckons conditions in Communist era factories in the former USSR were better than some of the workplaces she has experienced here.
The vast majority of British people are not work shy, they just want to be treated like human beings instead of being treated like disposable nappies.
How can they not make a profit hiring British People? Unless they are offering less than minimum wage.
The can make a profit - you've got the wrong problem.
The problem is a company wants to keep wages low.
You offer a job at minimum wage
Brits don't want it - or not enough to fill the vacanceis.
You want to keep wages low, so you don't increase the wage offer, you advertise abroad or take on migrants some other way.
How can they not make a profit hiring British People? Unless they are offering less than minimum wage.
They seem to find enough British people to fill the boardroom without advertising in Poland or Hungary.;-)
Companies in the past have always made a profit hiring British workers,but why should they when its cheaper to import floods of cheaper Labour from former eastern block countries.,
And its technically illegal to pay someone less then the minimum wage,but Lord Wolfson need not worry as the UK Taxpayer is here to boost the low wages with corporate welfare,in the form of tax credits.Which anybody can clain Bristish,Polish or any other nationality entitled to come here.:(
Some people writing on this thread do not seem to have a clue about or indeed any experience of these so called employers that advertise warehouse and factory jobs.
My OH is Lithuanian, the first couple of years of her working here was spent working for agencies that in turn contracted to supposedly reputable companies.
Her employment was cancelled on the last minute many times, even when she had arrived at the premises ready to work and after spending time and bus fares getting there.
Other times she was sent home mid way through her shift with no explanation and expected to break basic H&S rules such as lifting heavy 15kg boxes well above head height or working non stop on a production line in warm conditions for 6 hours without so much as a glass of water.
At one factory the employer curtly rung the agency after my OH hurt her shoulder lifting the said boxes and demanded a replacement straightaway sending her home in tears ( he would not let her even record the incident in the accident book)
In addition she was hardly ever paid correctly or indeed sometimes paid at all, meaning she spent more time and money trying to extract her unpaid wages from agencies.
Employers would suddenly demand that employees work 12 hours instead of the agreed 8 hours towards the end of the shift with no extra premium rate of pay for the additional hours.
( If anyone has done fast moving production work then they will know 8 hours is enough for any person due to the constant repetitive movement needed for this type of work)
Of course some people will smugly claim that this is better than no work at all.
In that case we may as well class Britain as an offshore Bangladesh on the edge of Europe as we are supposed to be a civilised country.
My OH reckons conditions in Communist era factories in the former USSR were better than some of the workplaces she has experienced here.
The vast majority of British people are not work shy, they just want to be treated like human beings instead of being treated like disposable nappies.
Thank you for spelling it out. These companies are exploiting workers and then the press call British people lazy for not wanting to go back to Victorian working conditions where they won't earn enough money to get by. It is these employers who should be investigated but as usual the press try to pretend that it is all down to the laziness of the workforce.
Makes you wonder why they are paid so poorly that the taxpayer has to subsidise their employment. Do you not think that a company's ability to ship in people from places where wages are just a fraction of the minimum wage here and where in-work benefits do not exist helps to perpetuate that situation?
Bloody hell. There are a hell of a lot of graves around the world filled with British soldiers if we did nothing. Must have been a mirage.
Blimey! That was three days ago.
Andy's point was in relation to the direction of the thread at the time. The discussion had turned to the fact Britain declared war on Germany over the Polish invasion, then did nothing for months.
Look up 'the phony war' for the details. The tragedy is that some German military strategists reckoned that if we'd gone in at the time the German Army wouldn't have been able to stand against Britain and France. They bluffed, and were right in their assumption we'd not back up our words.
Thank you for spelling it out. These companies are exploiting workers and then the press call British people lazy for not wanting to go back to Victorian working conditions where they won't earn enough money to get by. It is these employers who should be investigated but as usual the press try to pretend that it is all down to the laziness of the workforce.
And I could paint a completely opposite view of work in British factories.
I have worked in a number in the last couple of years and what the original poster said would not compare with my decade of experience in any way shape or form.
The agencies are usually the problem not the employer. They are contracted to supply labour at a set price and expected to handle all their HR as well.
Though if they are abusing the workers they supply, then they will have the contracts revoked. I can remember a case where the son of the agency owner was sexually harrasing the female workers. After just 2 complaints to our management the company was sacked.
I have never worked at a company that paid minimum wage even for starter employees. Though I have worked alongside English agency workers who were earning 20% more than me for doing the same job.
If this is true it is so wrong.
With so many British people are unemployed and looking for work.
Arla did that when they opened a new distribution warehouse in Hatfield. No jobs advertised locally, or even in the UK, but rather abroad. And I believe Arla used an agency that also organised travel and accommodation for workers.
The end result is that in the morning (between 4 and 7am) when there are shift changes, I can look out of my window and see cars ferrying staff to the warehouse (many looking like they have more than 5 people per car) wearing hi-vis vests all ready to go, and they stay in cramped conditions in multiple occupancy flats.
I've even heard that some landlords that house these workers even operate some on a shift basis, so your bed is rented out to another shift worker when you're at work!
I actually feel a bit sorry for these people for having to live in such poor conditions, but at the same time, they're over here to work for a certain time and then go back home with the money that will go a lot further than here.
The upside; these people aren't here to claim benefits.
The downside; they're willing to work for minimum wage and live in conditions that a lot of people living here wouldn't want to do.
I know the argument is that many Brits are too lazy or see this sort of work as beneath them, and that's probably true in many cases, but would you want to take a job that pays so little that you'd have to shack up with loads of other people to sleep before going back to work?
Because people from eastern Europe will, it means companies can continue to pay such poor wages and certainly not need to worry too much about how they treat staff as it's just a quick email to the agency that will send another coach over to replace those that leave.
Edit: I am no UKIP supporter. Indeed, I'm a firm believer we should stay in the EU, but we do need to do something. These workers coming from elsewhere in the EU (notably eastern Europe, as nobody from France or Germany etc would come do these jobs) are being exploited, and we're allowing it to happen because it's good for the economy.
The fact an agency will arrange transport and accommodation means they're effectively gangmasters, and the only difference seems to be that they don't retain passports or threaten to hurt family members back home if people don't turn up for work. But it's not far off.
Arla did that when they opened a new distribution warehouse in Hatfield. No jobs advertised locally, or even in the UK, but rather abroad. And I believe Arla used an agency that also organised travel and accommodation for workers.
The end result is that in the morning (between 4 and 7am) when there are shift changes, I can look out of my window and see cars ferrying staff to the warehouse (many looking like they have more than 5 people per car) wearing hi-vis vests all ready to go, and they stay in cramped conditions in multiple occupancy flats.
I've even heard that some landlords that house these workers even operate some on a shift basis, so your bed is rented out to another shift worker when you're at work!
I actually feel a bit sorry for these people for having to live in such poor conditions, but at the same time, they're over here to work for a certain time and then go back home with the money that will go a lot further than here.
The upside; these people aren't here to claim benefits.
The downside; they're willing to work for minimum wage and live in conditions that a lot of people living here wouldn't want to do.
I know the argument is that many Brits are too lazy or see this sort of work as beneath them, and that's probably true in many cases, but would you want to take a job that pays so little that you'd have to shack up with loads of other people to sleep before going back to work?
Because people from eastern Europe will, it means companies can continue to pay such poor wages and certainly not need to worry too much about how they treat staff as it's just a quick email to the agency that will send another coach over to replace those that leave.
Maybe to stop this abuse we need to change the rules on the freedom of movement within the silly eu.
as it is not fair and right how these poor eastern europeans are getting treated by some horrible employers
Maybe to stop this abuse we need to change the rules on the freedom of movement within the silly eu.
as it is not fair and right how these poor eastern europeans are getting treated by some horrible employers
I just edited my post after you'd replied, and yes you're right. But these aren't even small employers on some dodgy industrial estate and doing stuff that is beneath the radar of those that should be protecting workers.
This is Next, Arla, I suspect Ocado does the same (also in Hatfield) and no doubt many other large firms that have big distribution warehouses that need staff but don't want to pay a penny more than they have do.
That documentary showing the pressure on staff at an Amazon warehouse also gives an insight into how tough it could be at other places - with the very real risk of being sacked for being off sick etc.
When you know you've got coach loads of people ready to replace people, you really don't need to worry too much about how you treat them. All you need to do is remain within the law, and when things like zero hour contracts are legal, it seems the law doesn't do that much to protect them.
So, while some Brits may prefer to sit at home and claim benefits, I cannot see how or why any would want to take these jobs as they currently are, and are allowed to be.
And if you believe the rhetoric from some freedom of movement advocates, the majority of immigrants are here to fill a skills shortage.
The more politicians and corporate leaders insult our intelligence with such nonsense the more they push voters towards UKIP.
And if you believe the rhetoric from some freedom of movement advocates, the majority of immigrants are here to fill a skills shortage.
The more politicians insult our intelligence with such nonsense the more they push voters towards UKIP.
What this thread is proving that anti-EU and anti-immigrant sentiment isn't just coming from disgruntled Tories on the political right wing. Most of the complaints about low paid immigrants is now coming from traditional Labour voters. It are these people that Miliband and the rest of the Labour leadership are failing to represent so it's not surprising that the so-called "working class" (even though I hate the phrase) are flocking to UKIP.
What this thread is proving that anti-EU and anti-immigrant sentiment isn't just coming from disgruntled Tories on the political right wing. Most of the complaints about low paid immigrants is now coming from traditional Labour voters. It are these people that Miliband and the rest of the Labour leadership are failing to represent so it's not surprising that the so-called "working class" (even though I hate the phrase) are flocking to UKIP.
The threat of freedom of movement in the EU was always going to fall on low paid workers. That is why Labour traditionally was more eurosceptic than the Tories. It is why people like Bob Crow campaigned against membership.
Makes you wonder why they are paid so poorly that the taxpayer has to subsidise their employment. Do you not think that a company's ability to ship in people from places where wages are just a fraction of the minimum wage here and where in-work benefits do not exist helps to perpetuate that situation?
I think their ability to pay so little and allow the taxpayer to make good the cost of living gap, for a job that is perhaps rather more skilled than many give credit for, might be a factor....course they will now apparently be able to carry on paying low wages and there will be no tax credit payable if they continue to employ from abroad....
Comments
i wouldn't trust him, he stole that one from UKIP and none of this will be able to happen whilst we are ruled by the EU.
Who says jobs have to be advertised online? They could of course just be made available via UK job centres firstly,as i am sure your realise.;-)
Does anyone actually still use job centres these days? How quaint.
It's so damn wrong given there are 200,000 unemployed in that area of Yorkshire and the jobs weren't even offered to them.
And even if a uk job seeker had have looked online at this job agency unless you could read polish, you would not have seen them as they were not in the engilsh section. And did not come on nexts website for 2 weeks after they were advertised in poland. Last month, Polish website flamejobs announced: “Dear All. The *recruitment for Next warehouses has started.”
There was no mention of these jobs on the English language section of the website.
But – in Polish only – it invited people to an open day at offices in Warsaw.
The ad was seen by the Mirror on November 3 and the recruitment session took place three days later.
We monitored the careers pages of the Next website and two UK *recruitment agencies and it was nearly two weeks after the open day before these jobs were on offer here.
But they were offered to them, and they are still being offered to them and there are 100 vacancies unfilled...
It makes you wonder how much of the local unemployment is genuine in that case.
Either there is a shortage of jobs (=unemployment) or a shortage of local labour willing to accept the money on offer, in which case the taxpayer will meanwhile pay for the local labour to continue being unemployed (and employers will look outside the local area for labour willing to work for the money they offer).
That though is primarily a domestic issue, not an EU one, and requires the government here to look at what is "real" unemployment and/or the minimum wage levels and/or skills training for the unemployed.
More likely though is they'll blame the Poles as it is easier than tackling any of that...
How can they not make a profit hiring British People? Unless they are offering less than minimum wage.
My OH is Lithuanian, the first couple of years of her working here was spent working for agencies that in turn contracted to supposedly reputable companies.
Her employment was cancelled on the last minute many times, even when she had arrived at the premises ready to work and after spending time and bus fares getting there.
Other times she was sent home mid way through her shift with no explanation and expected to break basic H&S rules such as lifting heavy 15kg boxes well above head height or working non stop on a production line in warm conditions for 6 hours without so much as a glass of water.
At one factory the employer curtly rung the agency after my OH hurt her shoulder lifting the said boxes and demanded a replacement straightaway sending her home in tears ( he would not let her even record the incident in the accident book)
In addition she was hardly ever paid correctly or indeed sometimes paid at all, meaning she spent more time and money trying to extract her unpaid wages from agencies.
Employers would suddenly demand that employees work 12 hours instead of the agreed 8 hours towards the end of the shift with no extra premium rate of pay for the additional hours.
( If anyone has done fast moving production work then they will know 8 hours is enough for any person due to the constant repetitive movement needed for this type of work)
Of course some people will smugly claim that this is better than no work at all.
In that case we may as well class Britain as an offshore Bangladesh on the edge of Europe as we are supposed to be a civilised country.
My OH reckons conditions in Communist era factories in the former USSR were better than some of the workplaces she has experienced here.
The vast majority of British people are not work shy, they just want to be treated like human beings instead of being treated like disposable nappies.
The problem is a company wants to keep wages low.
You offer a job at minimum wage
Brits don't want it - or not enough to fill the vacanceis.
You want to keep wages low, so you don't increase the wage offer, you advertise abroad or take on migrants some other way.
They seem to find enough British people to fill the boardroom without advertising in Poland or Hungary.;-)
Companies in the past have always made a profit hiring British workers,but why should they when its cheaper to import floods of cheaper Labour from former eastern block countries.,
And its technically illegal to pay someone less then the minimum wage,but Lord Wolfson need not worry as the UK Taxpayer is here to boost the low wages with corporate welfare,in the form of tax credits.Which anybody can clain Bristish,Polish or any other nationality entitled to come here.:(
Thank you for spelling it out. These companies are exploiting workers and then the press call British people lazy for not wanting to go back to Victorian working conditions where they won't earn enough money to get by. It is these employers who should be investigated but as usual the press try to pretend that it is all down to the laziness of the workforce.
Makes you wonder why they are paid so poorly that the taxpayer has to subsidise their employment. Do you not think that a company's ability to ship in people from places where wages are just a fraction of the minimum wage here and where in-work benefits do not exist helps to perpetuate that situation?
Bloody hell. There are a hell of a lot of graves around the world filled with British soldiers if we did nothing. Must have been a mirage.
Andy's point was in relation to the direction of the thread at the time. The discussion had turned to the fact Britain declared war on Germany over the Polish invasion, then did nothing for months.
Look up 'the phony war' for the details. The tragedy is that some German military strategists reckoned that if we'd gone in at the time the German Army wouldn't have been able to stand against Britain and France. They bluffed, and were right in their assumption we'd not back up our words.
And I could paint a completely opposite view of work in British factories.
I have worked in a number in the last couple of years and what the original poster said would not compare with my decade of experience in any way shape or form.
The agencies are usually the problem not the employer. They are contracted to supply labour at a set price and expected to handle all their HR as well.
Though if they are abusing the workers they supply, then they will have the contracts revoked. I can remember a case where the son of the agency owner was sexually harrasing the female workers. After just 2 complaints to our management the company was sacked.
I have never worked at a company that paid minimum wage even for starter employees. Though I have worked alongside English agency workers who were earning 20% more than me for doing the same job.
Arla did that when they opened a new distribution warehouse in Hatfield. No jobs advertised locally, or even in the UK, but rather abroad. And I believe Arla used an agency that also organised travel and accommodation for workers.
The end result is that in the morning (between 4 and 7am) when there are shift changes, I can look out of my window and see cars ferrying staff to the warehouse (many looking like they have more than 5 people per car) wearing hi-vis vests all ready to go, and they stay in cramped conditions in multiple occupancy flats.
I've even heard that some landlords that house these workers even operate some on a shift basis, so your bed is rented out to another shift worker when you're at work!
I actually feel a bit sorry for these people for having to live in such poor conditions, but at the same time, they're over here to work for a certain time and then go back home with the money that will go a lot further than here.
The upside; these people aren't here to claim benefits.
The downside; they're willing to work for minimum wage and live in conditions that a lot of people living here wouldn't want to do.
I know the argument is that many Brits are too lazy or see this sort of work as beneath them, and that's probably true in many cases, but would you want to take a job that pays so little that you'd have to shack up with loads of other people to sleep before going back to work?
Because people from eastern Europe will, it means companies can continue to pay such poor wages and certainly not need to worry too much about how they treat staff as it's just a quick email to the agency that will send another coach over to replace those that leave.
Edit: I am no UKIP supporter. Indeed, I'm a firm believer we should stay in the EU, but we do need to do something. These workers coming from elsewhere in the EU (notably eastern Europe, as nobody from France or Germany etc would come do these jobs) are being exploited, and we're allowing it to happen because it's good for the economy.
The fact an agency will arrange transport and accommodation means they're effectively gangmasters, and the only difference seems to be that they don't retain passports or threaten to hurt family members back home if people don't turn up for work. But it's not far off.
Maybe to stop this abuse we need to change the rules on the freedom of movement within the silly eu.
as it is not fair and right how these poor eastern europeans are getting treated by some horrible employers
I just edited my post after you'd replied, and yes you're right. But these aren't even small employers on some dodgy industrial estate and doing stuff that is beneath the radar of those that should be protecting workers.
This is Next, Arla, I suspect Ocado does the same (also in Hatfield) and no doubt many other large firms that have big distribution warehouses that need staff but don't want to pay a penny more than they have do.
That documentary showing the pressure on staff at an Amazon warehouse also gives an insight into how tough it could be at other places - with the very real risk of being sacked for being off sick etc.
When you know you've got coach loads of people ready to replace people, you really don't need to worry too much about how you treat them. All you need to do is remain within the law, and when things like zero hour contracts are legal, it seems the law doesn't do that much to protect them.
So, while some Brits may prefer to sit at home and claim benefits, I cannot see how or why any would want to take these jobs as they currently are, and are allowed to be.
The more politicians and corporate leaders insult our intelligence with such nonsense the more they push voters towards UKIP.
What this thread is proving that anti-EU and anti-immigrant sentiment isn't just coming from disgruntled Tories on the political right wing. Most of the complaints about low paid immigrants is now coming from traditional Labour voters. It are these people that Miliband and the rest of the Labour leadership are failing to represent so it's not surprising that the so-called "working class" (even though I hate the phrase) are flocking to UKIP.
The threat of freedom of movement in the EU was always going to fall on low paid workers. That is why Labour traditionally was more eurosceptic than the Tories. It is why people like Bob Crow campaigned against membership.
I think their ability to pay so little and allow the taxpayer to make good the cost of living gap, for a job that is perhaps rather more skilled than many give credit for, might be a factor....course they will now apparently be able to carry on paying low wages and there will be no tax credit payable if they continue to employ from abroad....