You're the only one talking about "mainstream fashion". New Romantic sartorial style wasn't about men having a psychological compulsion or sexual fetisism. It was self expressionism through clothes. It happened and society survived.
You're the only one talking about "mainstream fashion". New Romantic sartorial style wasn't about men having a psychological compulsion or sexual fetisism. It was self expressionism through clothes. It happened and society survived.
I know. That's why I said New Romantic stuff from the 1980s wasn't "mainstream fashion".
Are you saying men in "men's" clothes and women in "women's" clothes NEVER look ridiculous? Ever?
Of course they can. But any man in any dress will always look ridiculous (unless they're a convincing female impersonator). The kid in the show was just a random kid wearing a random dress. He wasn't pretending to be a female.
I know. That's why I said New Romantic stuff from the 1980s wasn't "mainstream fashion".
Are you repeating yourself because my point didn't fit with your strict view of what's suitable for men & women to wear? I already said this isn't about fashion, mainstream or otherwise.
Of course they can. But any man in any dress will always look ridiculous (unless they're a convincing female impersonator). The kid in the show was just a random kid wearing a random dress. He wasn't pretending to be a female.
So what makes an outfit look ridiculous? The gender or the cut of the cloth?
Of course they can. But any man in any dress will always look ridiculous (unless they're a convincing female impersonator). The kid in the show was just a random kid wearing a random dress. He wasn't pretending to be a female.[/QUOTE]
Lots of men wear "dresses/skirts" in other countries and its considered normal. Look around and open up your eyes....its not just Scotland!
I did wonder what the boy actor felt like ,wearing a dress, because he was adolescent and thats an age when most are trying desperately to "fit in" with peer groups.
One thing the show didn't seem to explain, (not that it needed to) was the motivation for Dennis to wear dresses.
Was it because he liked the fashion or because he had gender identity issues?
He seemed to dress as a female (e.g. the wig and earrings) so that he could pass as female and be able to wear the clothing without any problems. Rather than going as a male and having people recognise him and most probably bully him.
It doesn't matter either way in terms of justification but it would have been nice to have it clarified.
Are you repeating yourself because my point didn't fit with your strict view of what's suitable for men & women to wear? I already said this isn't about fashion, mainstream or otherwise.
So what makes an outfit look ridiculous? The gender or the cut of the cloth?
In all your posts, you do seem to sound fairly insistent that men should and be able to wear womens clothes. And I just would like to know why you think this is so important?
Wouldn't you have felt a bit embarrassed at school if one of your male relatives had picked you up at school dressed entirely as a female?
I don't understand why you think that it's wrong for women to be the only ones to wear a dress/skirt, and for men to only wear trousers.
What's wrong with that?
And if the idea was normal for men to wear womens clothes then why isn't it already mainstream? Why don't I ever see men walking down the road wearing an a line skirt and swinging their handbag..:D
In all your posts, you do seem to sound fairly insistent that men should and be able to wear womens clothes. And I just would like to know why you think this is so important?
Wouldn't you have felt a bit embarrassed at school if one of your male relatives had picked you up at school dressed entirely as a female?
I don't understand why you think that it's wrong for women to be the only ones to wear a dress/skirt, and for men to only wear trousers.
What's wrong with that?
And if the idea was normal for men to wear womens clothes then why isn't it already mainstream? Why don't I ever see men walking down the road wearing an a line skirt and swinging their handbag..:D
I'm being insistant that anyone can wear what they like regardless of their gender. You may judge them to look odd but really it's of no real all encompassing concern of anyone but the individual.
Why do you feel I would be embarrassed when you don't know me or my male relatives?
BIB - But I don't think women should only be the ones to wear a dress/skirt or men to only wear trousers. Quite the opposite. Are you sure you've read my posts properly?
You've never seen a man in public in women's clothing? Maybe you just haven't been paying enough attention. I haven't seen thousands, no, and I'm not saying every man has to suddenly reenact that Two Ronnies sketch, but I've certainly occasionally seen men in women's clothing out in public getting on with their day. The idea that it's a big deal is a matter of mind.
Don`t think your clever or angelic just because you think a boy can wear a wig and a dress to school. I think it`s wrong. . and if a boy really did that in reality he`d be a laughing stock.
And therein lies the problem. Not with the boy in a dress but with the people who believe a boy in a dress is 'wrong'. What is wrong with it? As for those who laugh - they are the one's with a problem.
In years to come maybe men/boys will wear dresses/skirts, especially in the warm summer months. I cannot see brightly coloured dresses generally but the muted colours of traditional men's wear. Men have worn long loose garments throughout our history - why not once more?
Oh yes. It's really bringing out the knuckle draggers.
It isn't knuckle dragging or bigoted to have a genuine difference of opinion to yourself.
Besides, I get the impression that equally annoying, if not more annoying, to posters in this thread critical of the programme, is the way the programme and the BBC portrays the issue. Many posters have felt that the BBC patronises the viewing public by talking to them like children, telling them what they should believe, portraying anyone who opposes the oh-so-wonderful and 'progressive' idea at the centre of the plot as a narrowminded bigot (Tim McInnerny's character being the usual bigoted caricature). Even the gay poster on page 2 thought it was patronising propaganda!.
This is where people like to draw an arbitrary line: 'women's' apparel on one side, 'men's' on the other. (And long hair on one side, short hair (and hairy chest and legs) on the other.)
And we are expected to keep to our own side. Or least men are; woman apparently have enough dress freedom to cross over whenever they like.
In the show, the boy didn't want to be a female, but had to look like one in order to be able to get away with wearing a dress.
Of course they can. But any man in any dress will always look ridiculous (unless they're a convincing female impersonator). The kid in the show was just a random kid wearing a random dress. He wasn't pretending to be a female.
He was, because he was pretending to be 'Denise', the French exchange student.
He was, because he was pretending to be 'Denise', the French exchange student.
Only through necessity. If in France boys regularly wore gay flowery dresses, then he'd only have to disguise himself sufficiently to avoid being recognised, this time as another boy (but probably not called Denis).
He was, because he was pretending to be 'Denise', the French exchange student.
He wasn't, it was his female friend who introduced him as Denise, the French exchange student. Its clear from his initial reaction that he was unaware that was the 'role' he was to play and therefore just carried on with that particular pretence for the rest of the day.
As a viewer. we were given no indication as to what his original thoughts were regarding how he was to be perceived, whether it was simply to be a boy in a dress or a boy pretending to be female.
I thought it was a bit farfetched that the headmaster who expelled denis for wearing a dress, turned out to be a transvestite himself
What, in the way arch homophobes turn out often in real life to be repressed homosexuals? Happens a lot as we see from stories in the media ("Leader of 'ex-gay' evangelical group found in gay sauna".etc etc.).
What, in the way arch homophobes turn out often in real life to be repressed homosexuals? Happens a lot as we see from stories in the media ("Leader of 'ex-gay' evangelical group found in gay sauna".etc etc.).
A lad in my class at secondary school, over thirty years ago, used to act macho and use 'gay' as an insult. Just over four years ago I heard he left his wife and came out as gay.
I usually like David Walliams but I just couldn't see the point of this. The boy liked wearing a dress but it wasn't explained why he wanted to do this. There was no real story and the ending with the headmaster was so contrived.
Comments
You're the only one talking about "mainstream fashion". New Romantic sartorial style wasn't about men having a psychological compulsion or sexual fetisism. It was self expressionism through clothes. It happened and society survived.
Are you saying men in "men's" clothes and women in "women's" clothes NEVER look ridiculous? Ever?
I know. That's why I said New Romantic stuff from the 1980s wasn't "mainstream fashion".
Of course they can. But any man in any dress will always look ridiculous (unless they're a convincing female impersonator). The kid in the show was just a random kid wearing a random dress. He wasn't pretending to be a female.
Are you repeating yourself because my point didn't fit with your strict view of what's suitable for men & women to wear? I already said this isn't about fashion, mainstream or otherwise.
So what makes an outfit look ridiculous? The gender or the cut of the cloth?
I did wonder what the boy actor felt like ,wearing a dress, because he was adolescent and thats an age when most are trying desperately to "fit in" with peer groups.
Nice quirky drama.
Was it because he liked the fashion or because he had gender identity issues?
He seemed to dress as a female (e.g. the wig and earrings) so that he could pass as female and be able to wear the clothing without any problems. Rather than going as a male and having people recognise him and most probably bully him.
It doesn't matter either way in terms of justification but it would have been nice to have it clarified.
Wouldn't you have felt a bit embarrassed at school if one of your male relatives had picked you up at school dressed entirely as a female?
I don't understand why you think that it's wrong for women to be the only ones to wear a dress/skirt, and for men to only wear trousers.
What's wrong with that?
And if the idea was normal for men to wear womens clothes then why isn't it already mainstream? Why don't I ever see men walking down the road wearing an a line skirt and swinging their handbag..:D
I'm being insistant that anyone can wear what they like regardless of their gender. You may judge them to look odd but really it's of no real all encompassing concern of anyone but the individual.
Why do you feel I would be embarrassed when you don't know me or my male relatives?
BIB - But I don't think women should only be the ones to wear a dress/skirt or men to only wear trousers. Quite the opposite. Are you sure you've read my posts properly?
You've never seen a man in public in women's clothing? Maybe you just haven't been paying enough attention. I haven't seen thousands, no, and I'm not saying every man has to suddenly reenact that Two Ronnies sketch, but I've certainly occasionally seen men in women's clothing out in public getting on with their day. The idea that it's a big deal is a matter of mind.
And therein lies the problem. Not with the boy in a dress but with the people who believe a boy in a dress is 'wrong'. What is wrong with it? As for those who laugh - they are the one's with a problem.
In years to come maybe men/boys will wear dresses/skirts, especially in the warm summer months. I cannot see brightly coloured dresses generally but the muted colours of traditional men's wear. Men have worn long loose garments throughout our history - why not once more?
I enjoyed the programme.
It isn't knuckle dragging or bigoted to have a genuine difference of opinion to yourself.
Besides, I get the impression that equally annoying, if not more annoying, to posters in this thread critical of the programme, is the way the programme and the BBC portrays the issue. Many posters have felt that the BBC patronises the viewing public by talking to them like children, telling them what they should believe, portraying anyone who opposes the oh-so-wonderful and 'progressive' idea at the centre of the plot as a narrowminded bigot (Tim McInnerny's character being the usual bigoted caricature). Even the gay poster on page 2 thought it was patronising propaganda!.
This is where people like to draw an arbitrary line: 'women's' apparel on one side, 'men's' on the other. (And long hair on one side, short hair (and hairy chest and legs) on the other.)
And we are expected to keep to our own side. Or least men are; woman apparently have enough dress freedom to cross over whenever they like.
In the show, the boy didn't want to be a female, but had to look like one in order to be able to get away with wearing a dress.
Harris Patel also played Raj the shopkeeper in Gangsta Granny and Mr Stink.
He was, because he was pretending to be 'Denise', the French exchange student.
Only through necessity. If in France boys regularly wore gay flowery dresses, then he'd only have to disguise himself sufficiently to avoid being recognised, this time as another boy (but probably not called Denis).
He wasn't, it was his female friend who introduced him as Denise, the French exchange student. Its clear from his initial reaction that he was unaware that was the 'role' he was to play and therefore just carried on with that particular pretence for the rest of the day.
As a viewer. we were given no indication as to what his original thoughts were regarding how he was to be perceived, whether it was simply to be a boy in a dress or a boy pretending to be female.
What, in the way arch homophobes turn out often in real life to be repressed homosexuals? Happens a lot as we see from stories in the media ("Leader of 'ex-gay' evangelical group found in gay sauna".etc etc.).
A lad in my class at secondary school, over thirty years ago, used to act macho and use 'gay' as an insult. Just over four years ago I heard he left his wife and came out as gay.
You wouldn't say that if you saw this years Gay Pride festival, or perhaps you have a problem with that too?
This might come as a shock but the vast majority of gay men have no interest at all in dressing up as a woman.