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You're Back In The Room - ITV's newest offering

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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    Thanks for letting us know. We won't waste our time then.

    Some other people can't be convince that a sky fairy didn't create the world either.

    Interesting mix of arguments there; people who believe in God (who you constantly belittle) are the same type of people as those who don't believe in the fantasy that is hypnosis. Can you see how that makes you look fairly silly?

    Stage hypnosis is one of the tools used by professional magicians. (Of which you are one)

    Magicians are by their very nature liars.

    We are supposed to believe it when a liar tells us hypnosis is real...oh yeah and this is a perfectly ordinary deck of cards etc etc.

    Deary me !!!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,104
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    What was that song played in the background tonight when they were doing the luggage task? I've heard it quite a few times when I've been abroad
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    egghead1egghead1 Posts: 4,782
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    eggshell wrote: »
    Interesting mix of arguments there; people who believe in God (who you constantly belittle) are the same type of people as those who don't believe in the fantasy that is hypnosis. Can you see how that makes you look fairly silly?

    Stage hypnosis is one of the tools used by professional magicians. (Of which you are one)

    Magicians are by their very nature liars.

    We are supposed to believe it when a liar tells us hypnosis is real...oh yeah and this is a perfectly ordinary deck of cards etc etc.

    Deary me !!!


    How does that work? Magicians are liars so hypnosis isnt real? Great circular logic.So when stage hypnosis is used by non magicians what then?
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    Old EndeavourOld Endeavour Posts: 9,852
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    eggshell wrote: »
    Interesting mix of arguments there; people who believe in God (who you constantly belittle) are the same type of people as those who don't believe in the fantasy that is hypnosis. Can you see how that makes you look fairly silly?
    Deary me !!!

    Ah so YOU have decided what it is and defined it and then because of YOUR definition I'm the silly one?

    So what you have written here only works if we go with your definition. Seems like you are trying to make it work so that I am judged 'silly'.

    But it only does if you railroad your incorrect view into it.

    Basically it's not me, it you!
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    Old EndeavourOld Endeavour Posts: 9,852
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    egghead1 wrote: »
    How does that work? Magicians are liars so hypnosis isnt real? Great circular logic.So when stage hypnosis is used by non magicians what then?

    You will get nowhere. You have to have their definition of hypnosis being a load of crap for their posts to work. You will not be allowed any other view whether it be far more knowledgeable then theirs or not.

    We will now have 6 pages of digs and little attacks.

    Well, we would but I'm not biting.

    (Note how they turned up and went straight for me with a post trying to make out I'm the silly one)
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    Old EndeavourOld Endeavour Posts: 9,852
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    "Magicians are by their very nature liars."

    See now that is just trying to put a derogatory slant on magicians. The whole trick doesn't work if you stand there and tell people where you are stuffing the rabbit! So it's not lying at all it's just what a magician does or there is no show.

    This "Get the magicians at any cost" generation are just impossible to reason with as they just don't get the whole thing at all. They just think every magician is out there to get them and make them look silly and so must be taken down by calling them liars and exposing them as fake with a glee - Of course they are not really doing it - that IS a magic show!

    But of course you know all of this but keep on posting the same stuff. If you don't like magic/hypnosis/mentalism then go and watch Top Gear as it's a tradition with some to watch that show and dislike it every week.
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    AlrightmateAlrightmate Posts: 73,120
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    Sez_babe wrote: »
    I think you'd need to be a very good actor not to laugh when you put your face into a cake 10 times!

    I noticed him slip up near the end when he was putting a cake on that stand, he almost started laughing.
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    ABCZYXABCZYX Posts: 12,109
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    Sorry if this is a stupid question.

    When someone gets hypnotised like that - when the hypnotist tells them to sleep, do they literally fall asleep or get put into some sort of trance without them realising it, or do they consciously close their eyes and are aware of what the hypnotist is saying whilst feeling relaxed?

    And when they're actually doing what the hypnotist has told them to, do they genuinely 100% believe that it's true? Like in tonight's show where the man kept putting his face in the cake whenever he heard a particular word, was that something he had no control over or was he just following his orders? And when the other man kept needing to use the toilet after each question Phillip Schofield asked him, would he have genuinely felt as if he needed to go?
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    Old EndeavourOld Endeavour Posts: 9,852
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    ABCZYX wrote: »
    Sorry if this is a stupid question.

    When someone gets hypnotised like that - when the hypnotist tells them to sleep, do they literally fall asleep or get put into some sort of trance without them realising it, or do they consciously close their eyes and are aware of what the hypnotist is saying whilst feeling relaxed?

    And when they're actually doing what the hypnotist has told them to, do they genuinely 100% believe that it's true? Like in tonight's show where the man kept putting his face in the cake whenever he heard a particular word, was that something he had no control over or was he just following his orders? And when the other man kept needing to use the toilet after each question Phillip Schofield asked him, would he have genuinely felt as if he needed to go?

    Nothing stupid about your question, but what you have basically asked would require going into the detail of the whole of hypnosis and that would take books and books just to scrape the surface.

    Some things I can clear up:

    No, the word "Sleep" (and indeed the word Hypnos which means sleep) is very misleading. Typical of them naming something before they knew more about it. The subject is not asleep but is/should be deeply relaxed.


    "get put into some sort of trance without them realising it, or do they consciously close their eyes and are aware of what the hypnotist is saying whilst feeling relaxed?"

    Very complex, basically no one is put or forced into anything. You can't hypnotise anyone against their will. (You can be sneaky about it but that's another book) Trance? That is a loaded word with so many meanings. Some say that you can hypnotise without trance by they still follow procedures which result in a hypnotise state. If someone wants to call that a trance, then it will do as a word.

    As for the consciously closing eyes: Well, put it this way, if I yawn in front of you, chances are that you will yawn as well as a direct result of me yawning. Now did you do that consciously or was it a sub-conscious reaction that by-passed your critical brain and had a direct reaction on you? (Now we are getting somewhere!) - So in that you are not asleep and didn't consciously decide to yawn but an outside influence (me yawning) produced a involuntary reaction in you. Thing is that if it's mid-day and you are active and consciously don't want to react, chance are you won't. But if you are relaxed and feel at ease then most probably (not always) you will involuntarily yawn. Not too strangely the same conditions that hypnosis requires.

    "And when they're actually doing what the hypnotist has told them to, do they genuinely 100% believe that it's true?" - Hypnotic hallucination can be very vivid and real to the person, whilst you are in one, so can dreams. This is what some don't get about hypnosis when they use words like force and control and the like as really your body when in hypnosis isn't doing anything it can't already do. The human brain can dream, can imagine, and can react totally independently of conscious thought. Add to that mix emotions and feelings and really why does hypnosis seem so strange when you have all that to play with?

    If I ask a bunch of people to use their imaginations and picture a waterfall, some will say "Oh yeah!" and not really bother whilst at the other end a few will be able to picture it vividly almost to the point of feeling the refreshing mist from that waterfall. Guess which ones the hypnotist will be inviting up on stage?

    So no one is forced. It's a mutual journey that the hypnotist guides the person through. Whether the person feels like they are being guided or going there themselves is frankly irrelevant. Replace the yawn with suggestions for them to carry out and their sub-conscious brain will go with that regardless of what the critical brain is doing. (Technically and very simply, it is that bypassing of the critical part of the brain that is hypnosis but you don't do it by force)

    What a person thinks or feels at any stage is wide and varied as they are different people with all the complexity that they arrived with. So whether they feel hypnotised or not during or after is irrelevant. Did they follow the hypnotic suggestions? If yes, then they were hypnotised.

    You yawn involuntarily so why under the right conditions shouldn't you do other things if introduce to you in the right way.

    What some don't get is that they tune into the show and there they are "Sleep!" and off they go. Yes they explain that they were "put into a trance earlier", so they are not hiding anything, but that process was slow and long and conditioned them. Their sub-conscious has already been condition as to the response when given the "Sleep" command and they go straight there. And why not? Hypnosis is a deep relaxing pleasant thing that many find enjoyable. (Some to the point where they are reluctant to come out of it - That's another book)

    And to answer an age old question that you didn't ask: What would happen if you were left in a "trance"? Answer: as you are very relaxed, only one of two things can happen; you will either fall asleep and wake up normally when you wanted to, or you would just 'wake up'. (Not actually wake up as you are not asleep but return to the normal level of consciousness that you came in with.

    Would he had felt he really needed a pee? Well when merely thinking about running water can INDUCE that feeling in most people, then yes, he would have felt like he needed to pee. (I emphasised the word INDUCE there as it's exactly what you are doing during a hypnotic INDUCTION - instilling what you want into them bypassing the critical brain and having a direct affect on the sub-conscious. Just like telling someone to think of running water and they suddenly want to pee.

    And that's just the short version! I have simplified it a lot because as I said, what you have asked is the entire collected works of many books.

    :)

    Sorry if some of this is unreadable but it's 10 to 4am and I should have gone to bed two hours ago.
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    AlrightmateAlrightmate Posts: 73,120
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    It doesn't matter if hypnosis is real or not. For example many people might swear to the positive benefits of hypnotherapy.
    That for me is the wrong question and is irrelevant.

    No, the pertinent question is whether hypnosis is real on this TV show.

    Believing and even proving that hypnosis is a real phenomenon is completely irrelevant when determining whether the apparent hypnosis on this show is real or not.
    Just because somebody can prove that hypnosis is real, and lets say for the sake of argument that it is, it doesn't automatically prove that this show isn't a load of phoney bullshit relying on a lot of fakery in order to fool the viewer into believing it's real.

    To me it looks about as legit as that ghosthunting show called 'Most Haunted'. Which no doubt will have its fans just like the ghost show did.
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    Old EndeavourOld Endeavour Posts: 9,852
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    It doesn't matter if hypnosis is real or not. For example many people might swear to the positive benefits of hypnotherapy.
    That for me is the wrong question and is irrelevant.

    No, the pertinent question is whether hypnosis is real on this TV show.

    Believing and even proving that hypnosis is a real phenomenon is completely irrelevant when determining whether the apparent hypnosis on this show is real or not.

    Yes that is a sensible and valid question.

    To me from a professional point of view I would say; why fake it when all of what happens is very straight forward hypnosis?

    So if someone wrongly think that there us no such thing as hypnosis, then the only conclusion they will ever accept is that the whole show is faking it.

    If you know or accept that there is such a thing as hypnosis, then why not use that in the show and do what they are meant to be doing?

    So maybe it's all nothing to do with what is happening on the TV but what is happening in people's minds? No such thing as hypnosis = it must therefore be fake. So that is merely a conclusion the viewer has come to and is really also neither here or there as it can still be true or false.

    Conversely, if you accept or know that there is such and thing and that all the things shown are in fact very basic hypnosis as much more can be done, then why bother faking it? It's like paying for an expensive stair lift and having it all installed with all the mess when there is absolutely nothing wrong with your legs and you can run up the stair with no problems.

    I mean similar can be seen at every Hypnosis Show carried out over the last 100 years or so why not on TV? A cheap hypnotist in a pub can't pay for loads of actors to turn up and he/she doesn't need to as all they do is hypnotise people. So why does ITV need to go about the whole thing another way.

    So in conclusion: Really to suggest it could be fake suggests doubt of hypnosis in the accuser. There is no valid reason for ITV to hire and pay for actors when they can do the same thing without. Actors are not required.
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    Sweaty Job RotSweaty Job Rot Posts: 2,031
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    Fudd wrote: »
    The film questions were horrible. Brilliant but horrible.

    I felt Philip took far too much joy in yelling out 'PEEWEE'! :D

    The only box I want to see scofield in is the one for his eternal rest, cannot abide the sanctimonious fake ass cretin and him being on the box constantly just irks me no end.

    This program is just cancerous vile bile at its best, WTF were they smoking when this got greenlit?

    I accept that hypnosis is real just don't accept this vile rubbish is anything but fakery with wannabe actors masquerading as contestants.
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    "Magicians are by their very nature liars."

    See now that is just trying to put a derogatory slant on magicians. The whole trick doesn't work if you stand there and tell people where you are stuffing the rabbit! So it's not lying at all it's just what a magician does or there is no show.

    This "Get the magicians at any cost" generation are just impossible to reason with as they just don't get the whole thing at all. They just think every magician is out there to get them and make them look silly and so must be taken down by calling them liars and exposing them as fake with a glee - Of course they are not really doing it - that IS a magic show!

    But of course you know all of this but keep on posting the same stuff. If you don't like magic/hypnosis/mentalism then go and watch Top Gear as it's a tradition with some to watch that show and dislike it every week.

    Oh dear...persecution complex much.

    I actually am a magician as well , so that's a fail for you.

    Silly boy !
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    egghead1 wrote: »
    How does that work? Magicians are liars so hypnosis isnt real? Great circular logic.So when stage hypnosis is used by non magicians what then?

    Be interested for you to name one, even our friend Old Endeavour falls into that category.

    But I'm just pointing out the slight difficulty in "Hey I'm someone who bends the truth for a living but this bit here is totally legit"
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    Nothing stupid about your question, but what you have basically asked would require going into the detail of the whole of hypnosis and that would take books and books just to scrape the surface.

    Some things I can clear up:

    No, the word "Sleep" (and indeed the word Hypnos which means sleep) is very misleading. Typical of them naming something before they knew more about it. The subject is not asleep but is/should be deeply relaxed.


    "get put into some sort of trance without them realising it, or do they consciously close their eyes and are aware of what the hypnotist is saying whilst feeling relaxed?"

    Very complex, basically no one is put or forced into anything. You can't hypnotise anyone against their will. (You can be sneaky about it but that's another book) Trance? That is a loaded word with so many meanings. Some say that you can hypnotise without trance by they still follow procedures which result in a hypnotise state. If someone wants to call that a trance, then it will do as a word.

    As for the consciously closing eyes: Well, put it this way, if I yawn in front of you, chances are that you will yawn as well as a direct result of me yawning. Now did you do that consciously or was it a sub-conscious reaction that by-passed your critical brain and had a direct reaction on you? (Now we are getting somewhere!) - So in that you are not asleep and didn't consciously decide to yawn but an outside influence (me yawning) produced a involuntary reaction in you. Thing is that if it's mid-day and you are active and consciously don't want to react, chance are you won't. But if you are relaxed and feel at ease then most probably (not always) you will involuntarily yawn. Not too strangely the same conditions that hypnosis requires.

    "And when they're actually doing what the hypnotist has told them to, do they genuinely 100% believe that it's true?" - Hypnotic hallucination can be very vivid and real to the person, whilst you are in one, so can dreams. This is what some don't get about hypnosis when they use words like force and control and the like as really your body when in hypnosis isn't doing anything it can't already do. The human brain can dream, can imagine, and can react totally independently of conscious thought. Add to that mix emotions and feelings and really why does hypnosis seem so strange when you have all that to play with?

    If I ask a bunch of people to use their imaginations and picture a waterfall, some will say "Oh yeah!" and not really bother whilst at the other end a few will be able to picture it vividly almost to the point of feeling the refreshing mist from that waterfall. Guess which ones the hypnotist will be inviting up on stage?

    So no one is forced. It's a mutual journey that the hypnotist guides the person through. Whether the person feels like they are being guided or going there themselves is frankly irrelevant. Replace the yawn with suggestions for them to carry out and their sub-conscious brain will go with that regardless of what the critical brain is doing. (Technically and very simply, it is that bypassing of the critical part of the brain that is hypnosis but you don't do it by force)

    What a person thinks or feels at any stage is wide and varied as they are different people with all the complexity that they arrived with. So whether they feel hypnotised or not during or after is irrelevant. Did they follow the hypnotic suggestions? If yes, then they were hypnotised.

    You yawn involuntarily so why under the right conditions shouldn't you do other things if introduce to you in the right way.

    What some don't get is that they tune into the show and there they are "Sleep!" and off they go. Yes they explain that they were "put into a trance earlier", so they are not hiding anything, but that process was slow and long and conditioned them. Their sub-conscious has already been condition as to the response when given the "Sleep" command and they go straight there. And why not? Hypnosis is a deep relaxing pleasant thing that many find enjoyable. (Some to the point where they are reluctant to come out of it - That's another book)

    And to answer an age old question that you didn't ask: What would happen if you were left in a "trance"? Answer: as you are very relaxed, only one of two things can happen; you will either fall asleep and wake up normally when you wanted to, or you would just 'wake up'. (Not actually wake up as you are not asleep but return to the normal level of consciousness that you came in with.

    Would he had felt he really needed a pee? Well when merely thinking about running water can INDUCE that feeling in most people, then yes, he would have felt like he needed to pee. (I emphasised the word INDUCE there as it's exactly what you are doing during a hypnotic INDUCTION - instilling what you want into them bypassing the critical brain and having a direct affect on the sub-conscious. Just like telling someone to think of running water and they suddenly want to pee.

    And that's just the short version! I have simplified it a lot because as I said, what you have asked is the entire collected works of many books.

    :)

    Sorry if some of this is unreadable but it's 10 to 4am and I should have gone to bed two hours ago.

    Vast and deep subject, something that can only be solved by this £23 DVD


    http://www.magictricks.co.uk/shop/learn-hypnosis-by-richard-nongard-dvd/

    Or this (under toys and games on Amazon !)

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mentally-HYP-Nosis-DVD-Introduction/dp/B0018L1YL4/ref=sr_1_4?s=kids&ie=UTF8&qid=1427008740&sr=1-4&keywords=learn+hypnosis

    Or this at Penguin Magic ..ooh there's that magic trick connection as well

    http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S18300
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    This might be of interest..pretty balanced view of the subject of stage hypnotism

    http://www.learnstagehypnosis.com/the-skeptics-view/

    I'm conscious that I could come across as a mean-spirited killjoy which isn't my intention but I get nervous when people are led to believe that the underlying "story" to a performance is somehow real.

    Basic magic seems to be clear to most people..It's somebody pretending to have magical abilities and you go to either enjoy the story being told (at which the likes of Copperfield are masters) or even quite legitimately to figure out how it's done.

    Mentalists such as Derren Brown are doing a similar schtick. Their story is that they have advanced mind powers. Difficulty with Derren and his ilk is that he uses pseudo-science as an explanation which may confuse people into not realising that it's a magic act with a different theme. The fantasy element seems a lot harder for people to realise, it's not helped of course by Derren never coming out of character..unless you have some of his early books!!!

    Then hypnotism, "come and see the master hypnotist make your friends do outrageous things". Backed up again by pseudo scientific blather and confusion. Hypnotists themselves are even confused by their art. "I get a load of show offs up on stage and suggest they do things and they do ..it must be real!". It's an entertainment, the pretense being that you can control people. How entertaining it is is down to how you manage people, the scenarios you dream up, and how convincing they are.

    They are all legitimate entertainments as long as you go along with the story..but let's not confuse any of it with reality.
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    RichmondBlueRichmondBlue Posts: 21,279
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    I must admit, the debate on here is far more interesting and entertaining than the programme.
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    egghead1egghead1 Posts: 4,782
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    eggshell wrote: »
    Be interested for you to name one, even our friend Old Endeavour falls into that category.

    But I'm just pointing out the slight difficulty in "Hey I'm someone who bends the truth for a living but this bit here is totally legit"

    Name one what?
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    egghead1 wrote: »
    Name one what?

    Stage hypnotist who isn't a magician.
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    Bonnie ScotlandBonnie Scotland Posts: 2,211
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    it is completely irrelevant if the folk on the show are actors or not.
    it is completely irrelevant if they are or aren't hypnotized.
    it is completely irrelevant if the show is or isn't scripted.

    what IS relevant is, regardless of ALL the above, the show is complete and utter SH*TE and, if you are over the age of 10 and think this garbage IS funny then you need taken outside and shot ... with a harmless water pistol of course ;)
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    egghead1egghead1 Posts: 4,782
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    eggshell wrote: »
    Stage hypnotist who isn't a magician.

    Paul Mckenna.
    Then I did a google and top result http://www.comedystagehypnotist.co.uk/
    Im sure I could check Google and find many more but you only asked for one anyway.
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    egghead1egghead1 Posts: 4,782
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    it is completely irrelevant if the folk on the show are actors or not.
    it is completely irrelevant if they are or aren't hypnotized.
    it is completely irrelevant if the show is or isn't scripted.

    what IS relevant is, regardless of ALL the above, the show is complete and utter SH*TE and, if you are over the age of 10 and think this garbage IS funny then you need taken outside and shot ... with a harmless water pistol of course ;)

    Well I should be shot then. Do tell us what programmes you find funny
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    egghead1 wrote: »
    Paul Mckenna.
    Then I did a google and top result http://www.comedystagehypnotist.co.uk/
    Im sure I could check Google and find many more but you only asked for one anyway.

    He'll do nicely..(we'll call him the exception that proves the rule :) )..Seriously I think that most learning being on magic sites for stage hypnotism gives enough of a clue to its true nature.
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    egghead1egghead1 Posts: 4,782
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    eggshell wrote: »
    He'll do nicely..(we'll call him the exception that proves the rule :) )..Seriously I think that most learning being on magic sites for stage hypnotism gives enough of a clue to its true nature.

    Thats untrue also. I googled the term "learn stage hypnosis" no results for anything magic connected on first page.
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    eggshelleggshell Posts: 4,416
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    egghead1 wrote: »
    Thats untrue also. I googled the term "learn stage hypnosis" no results for anything magic connected on first page.

    So we're clear...you as a magician of 30 years standing are telling me that stage hypnotism is real ?
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