Oh lets get a bank in on the story. No story is complete without a banker!! This is they guy that Times were implicating on Saturday as also being on Wales Police Authority.
Lord Kenyan (Lloyd Tyrell-Kenyon, 5th Baron Kenyon, 1917-1993) was the father, and was the Director of Lloyds Bank, 1962-1988
He was also President of North Wales University, the Deputy Lieutenant of Flint, President of the National Museum of Wales, and Chairman of the National Portrait Gallery!
He also represented Wales on the EU’s Committee of the Regions, 1994-97.
He is still alive.....
If you search Google for "lloyd kenyon wales police", and look at the results for wrexham.gov.uk (example), you'll see him referenced between approx. 1999-2007 as Councillor Lloyd Kenyon at meetings of the Executive Board of the Wales Police Authority.
Mr Messham may well have heard Sir McA and inferred Lord McA. The difference is not that obvious, especially if the McA was known to be very rich. So there may not be any deliberate deception, just confusion by someone who was young and hurt and not dealt with properly.
Another possibility is the police may not have said Lord or Sir at all, just "McAlpine." In a London political context you can just say "Boris" because people know who you mean without needing to use the surname. I'm wondering if plod around Wrexham may have just used "McAlpine" to mean an equally well-known local figure.
Everyone since the name was covered-up at the inquiry have been assuming the name was covered-up to protect one VIP when it might have been covered-up to protect someone completely different?
Oh, I hadn't heard that, although I did hear someone mention on the news that Peter Rippon would probably never ever come back to Newsnight.
I prefer Angela anyway.Ah yes, who could forget her emerging from behind that desk, on the M. and W. show,kicking her legs high enough, to give us, more than a glimpse of her talent whilst warbling those prophetic lines, "there may be, trouble ahead".
Oh lets get a bank in on the story. No story is complete without a banker!! This is they guy that Times were implicating on Saturday as also being on Wales Police Authority.
The then newly appointed North Wales chief constable, who was uncontactable yesterday, refused to meet them or help with access to the police major-incident database. "We were disappointed at the apparent impossibility of obtaining a breakdown of data. We are unable to identify the overall extent of the allegations received by the police in the many witness statements which they took.''
At least the last few days has managed to turn over some of the rocks that were deliberately left unturned in North Wales.
At least the last few days has managed to turn over some of the rocks that were deliberately left unturned in North Wales.
I hope the Indie is considering publishing it. They'd have to take legal advice and redact bits of it that would identify victims etc, but it could clear the way for some sort of closure for the victims.
An ex-OFCOM bloke whose name I didn't catch says Entwistle was right to go, as he'd taken the "need to know" idea to an extreme. Traditional news broadcasting will never be the same again as broadcasters must look at the intertwining of traditional and social media. Some traditional media already broadcast internet rumours.
Esther Rantzen (for it is she) says she's sad that GE has gone; she thinks he would have been a good person to put in a new structure. Saying that when she used to do investigations it was all carefully checked legally so why didn't Newsnight do that?
ER says Newsnight didn't properly test Steven Messham's statements. Who is looking after survivors like Mr Messham?
The R5 presenters look cheerful enough but the BBC Breakfast presenters look to me like rabbits caught in the headlights, as if they think everything they say is being watched by the powers that be.
Sky News papers review panel seem to be taking it seriously and not taking delight in the Beeb's problems. One saying that when they worked at the BBC they could report nothing without at least 3 sources.
Congratulating John Humphreys on his professionalism.
Daily Mail investigates the credibility of Steven Messham, which is fair enough of course, but does it in an absurdly biased way so typical of the Daily Fail
Wonder what checks if any Jaya Narain carried out when he interviewed Bebe Roberts there doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence from other residents of Duncroft. Did The Mail not bother to contact other residents and staff who were there at the time?
Someone who contributes to this forum told me that spoke to a reporter at the Mail who cofirmed they had been contacted by former Duncroft girls pointing out problems with Bebe Roberts account. Also the reporter distanced themselves from the story and queried if the normal fact checks were carried out.
"With the BBC facing what he called a 'crisis of trust', George Entwistle's task yesterday was to try and restore confidence with a series of interviews, but his hesitant performances proved to be the final acts of a Director General who last night announced his resignation, just 54 days after taking up the job."
A bit generous to describe his performances as "hesitant" because it wasn't his style of speaking but his lack of knowledge about the key events that made him appear so hopeless.
An ex-OFCOM bloke whose name I didn't catch says Entwistle was right to go, as he'd taken the "need to know" idea to an extreme. Traditional news broadcasting will never be the same again as broadcasters must look at the intertwining of traditional and social media. Some traditional media already broadcast internet rumours.
Esther Rantzen (for it is she) says she's sad that GE has gone; she thinks he would have been a good person to put in a new structure. Saying that when she used to do investigations it was all carefully checked legally so why didn't Newsnight do that?
ER says Newsnight didn't properly test Steven Messham's statements. Who is looking after survivors like Mr Messham?
Was it Stewart Purvis?
You would have thought with the Newsnight editor stepping aside and a substitute in his place George would have laid down some firm ground rules re being notified, at least he would have been ahead of the game.
On a thread in Broadcasting it said Entwistle didn't have a deputy.
Meanwhile thousands of miles away Mark Thompson wakes up to a new dawn...
You would have thought with the Newsnight editor stepping aside and a substitute in his place George would have laid down some firm ground rules re being notified, at least he would have been ahead of the game.
On a thread in Broadcasting it said Entwistle didn't have a deputy.
Meanwhile thousands of miles away Mark Thompson wakes up to a new dawn...
Think it was Trevor someone. He now runs a broadcasting training course.
Esther now on BBC Breakfast, saying GE made a mistake in agreeing to do the Humphries interview when he was so ignorant about what had been happening.
Tessa Dunlop doing the papers on Beeb Breakfast, saying it's ironic that The Sun on Sunday has a sarcastic headline about GE, when the paper itself was born from a news scandal.
Sky News
Tim Luckhurst, former BBC journalist and now Prof. of Journalism at the University of Kent
Q: As a former BBC reporter, was it ineviable that George Entwistle would go?
TL: I think it was inevitable that he was going to go soon, after his appalling performance before the Select Committee on Culture, Media & Sports a couple of weeks ago. George Entwistle looked out of his depth every time he appeared in public. In terms of what I think about the BBC now, it is in a state of genuine crisis; that's a huge shame as it's an institution this country badly needs, and needs to get sorted out fast.
Q: Explain to us how it works then, because we can see why Newsnight would be in crisis - why is it the case that we now see the whole of the BBC in crisis?
TL: Because the BBC's reputation depends on its journalism more than anything else the BBC does., and whilst it might be unfair, the impression left by the failure to make clear, emphatic and accurate decisions to Newsnight in recent weeks has given the impression that the BBC's journalism is out of control; that is badly damaging and it needs to get that under control quickly.
Q: It's such an important brand, and has been such for a very long time can that be recoved?
TL: I think it can be recovered, but it certainly can't be recovered by preventing Newsnight from doing investigative journalism. It can't be recovered my making Newsnight a neutered version of itself. Newsnight has to restore confidence and to do that it has to break stories, it needs good editorial leadership - it needs to be able to go out and break news.
Q: Do you put strong people into lower positions to make really strong executive editorial decisions lower down, which a lot of journalists are saying needs to happen, or do you do what a lot of journalists are expecting to happen - to push it the other way, put the investigations into a separate department - make the management even more top-heavy?
TL: I think the latter is more likely to happen, but I would very much like to see the former happen. What the BBC's actually proved in the last few weeks is that if everybody's in charge nobody's in charge and there are simply too many layers of management. Devolving editorial decision making down to editors, letting editors make those hard decisions, giving them more autonomy, and removing the layers of bureacracy which exist between programme editors and the very top of the Corporation.
Q: But that's what George Entwistle said he was doing - giving more autonomy to the editors and not butt in at every opportunity.
TL: No - he didn't say he was doing autonomy - I wish he were. He was saying he personally didn't want to know what they were doing as long as they were referring up properly through the chain. Look how long that chain was. It involved a Deputy Director of News, a Director of News, and above that a Director of Vision. There are too many layers of bureaucratic management at the BBC. They don't exist at other broadcasters; they don't exist in newspapers. What the BBC is demonstrating is that the bureacratic approach lets it down - that is where everybody is responsible for decisions, then nobody actually takes responsibility.
Q: And is the role of the DG too all-consuming, is it too big, does that need to be broken down?
TL: I think the role of DG is almost an historical anachronism; it's existed since John Reith in 1923. The truth is, it's far too big now. The BBC needs, I think, an Editor-in-Chief, responsible for all its journalism. It needs another lead there to take responsibility for its creative work. It isn't about creating different layers of bureaucracy, it's about saying one person doing this whole job is probably impossible ; perhaps one should be in charge of the journalism and another in charge of the creative side of the BBC.
(A very good interview I thought; the hosts and the pundit were very clear and constructive. When I did my Masters in management in the mid 1980s all the talk was about flat structures, few tiers of bureaucracy etc, but that hasn't reached the BBC!)
Comments
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2694001/Graham-Ovenden-Kiddie-porn-on-PC-is-art.html
He was also President of North Wales University, the Deputy Lieutenant of Flint, President of the National Museum of Wales, and Chairman of the National Portrait Gallery!
http://www.stanford.edu/group/auden/cgi-bin/auden/individual.php?pid=I20139&ged=auden-bicknell.ged
2 of his sons were:
- Lloyd Tyrell-Kenyon, 6th Baron Kenyon (b. 1947)
- Thomas Kenyon (1954-1993)
The former was the High Sheriff of Clwyd in 1986
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Sheriff_of_Clwyd
He also represented Wales on the EU’s Committee of the Regions, 1994-97.
He is still alive.....
If you search Google for "lloyd kenyon wales police", and look at the results for wrexham.gov.uk (example), you'll see him referenced between approx. 1999-2007 as Councillor Lloyd Kenyon at meetings of the Executive Board of the Wales Police Authority.
The latter died of AIDS and was one of the men who Steve Messham and others (allegedly) say sexually abused them numerous times:
http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/07/thomas-kenyon-son-of-lord-kenyon-was-a-paedophile/
http://www.nickdavies.net/1997/10/01/secrecy-imposed-on-the-exposure-of-alleged-child-abuse-news-and-feature/
http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2012/11/06/who-was-thomas-kenyon/
You are welcome.And thanks for the you tube link.
Another possibility is the police may not have said Lord or Sir at all, just "McAlpine." In a London political context you can just say "Boris" because people know who you mean without needing to use the surname. I'm wondering if plod around Wrexham may have just used "McAlpine" to mean an equally well-known local figure.
Everyone since the name was covered-up at the inquiry have been assuming the name was covered-up to protect one VIP when it might have been covered-up to protect someone completely different?
I prefer Angela anyway.Ah yes, who could forget her emerging from behind that desk, on the M. and W. show,kicking her legs high enough, to give us, more than a glimpse of her talent whilst warbling those prophetic lines, "there may be, trouble ahead".
I don't think the son was a banker.
There is a massive time lapse between our two planets.
You are supposed to be asleep.:D
I am asleep, isn't life nought but a dream. Unless you are the BBC. then it's more of a nightmare, whhoooaaaaa!
Night night, I mean good morning.:D
At least the last few days has managed to turn over some of the rocks that were deliberately left unturned in North Wales.
I hope the Indie is considering publishing it. They'd have to take legal advice and redact bits of it that would identify victims etc, but it could clear the way for some sort of closure for the victims.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20286067#
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?p=62258733#post62258733
An ex-OFCOM bloke whose name I didn't catch says Entwistle was right to go, as he'd taken the "need to know" idea to an extreme. Traditional news broadcasting will never be the same again as broadcasters must look at the intertwining of traditional and social media. Some traditional media already broadcast internet rumours.
Esther Rantzen (for it is she) says she's sad that GE has gone; she thinks he would have been a good person to put in a new structure. Saying that when she used to do investigations it was all carefully checked legally so why didn't Newsnight do that?
ER says Newsnight didn't properly test Steven Messham's statements. Who is looking after survivors like Mr Messham?
Sky News papers review panel seem to be taking it seriously and not taking delight in the Beeb's problems. One saying that when they worked at the BBC they could report nothing without at least 3 sources.
Congratulating John Humphreys on his professionalism.
Wonder what checks if any Jaya Narain carried out when he interviewed Bebe Roberts there doesn't seem to be any supporting evidence from other residents of Duncroft. Did The Mail not bother to contact other residents and staff who were there at the time?
There seem to be a number of former residents of Duncroft who hotly dispute what was said by Bebe Roberts.
Someone who contributes to this forum told me that spoke to a reporter at the Mail who cofirmed they had been contacted by former Duncroft girls pointing out problems with Bebe Roberts account. Also the reporter distanced themselves from the story and queried if the normal fact checks were carried out.
"With the BBC facing what he called a 'crisis of trust', George Entwistle's task yesterday was to try and restore confidence with a series of interviews, but his hesitant performances proved to be the final acts of a Director General who last night announced his resignation, just 54 days after taking up the job."
A bit generous to describe his performances as "hesitant" because it wasn't his style of speaking but his lack of knowledge about the key events that made him appear so hopeless.
Was it Stewart Purvis?
You would have thought with the Newsnight editor stepping aside and a substitute in his place George would have laid down some firm ground rules re being notified, at least he would have been ahead of the game.
On a thread in Broadcasting it said Entwistle didn't have a deputy.
Meanwhile thousands of miles away Mark Thompson wakes up to a new dawn...
Who's next to go Rupert Murdoch?
Think it was Trevor someone. He now runs a broadcasting training course.
Esther now on BBC Breakfast, saying GE made a mistake in agreeing to do the Humphries interview when he was so ignorant about what had been happening.
She can't say no, can she.
Atoning for saying she was told years ago about Savile and doing nought.
She'll be applying to be DG next.
Tim Luckhurst, former BBC journalist and now Prof. of Journalism at the University of Kent
Q: As a former BBC reporter, was it ineviable that George Entwistle would go?
TL: I think it was inevitable that he was going to go soon, after his appalling performance before the Select Committee on Culture, Media & Sports a couple of weeks ago. George Entwistle looked out of his depth every time he appeared in public. In terms of what I think about the BBC now, it is in a state of genuine crisis; that's a huge shame as it's an institution this country badly needs, and needs to get sorted out fast.
Q: Explain to us how it works then, because we can see why Newsnight would be in crisis - why is it the case that we now see the whole of the BBC in crisis?
TL: Because the BBC's reputation depends on its journalism more than anything else the BBC does., and whilst it might be unfair, the impression left by the failure to make clear, emphatic and accurate decisions to Newsnight in recent weeks has given the impression that the BBC's journalism is out of control; that is badly damaging and it needs to get that under control quickly.
TL: I think it can be recovered, but it certainly can't be recovered by preventing Newsnight from doing investigative journalism. It can't be recovered my making Newsnight a neutered version of itself. Newsnight has to restore confidence and to do that it has to break stories, it needs good editorial leadership - it needs to be able to go out and break news.
Q: Do you put strong people into lower positions to make really strong executive editorial decisions lower down, which a lot of journalists are saying needs to happen, or do you do what a lot of journalists are expecting to happen - to push it the other way, put the investigations into a separate department - make the management even more top-heavy?
TL: I think the latter is more likely to happen, but I would very much like to see the former happen. What the BBC's actually proved in the last few weeks is that if everybody's in charge nobody's in charge and there are simply too many layers of management. Devolving editorial decision making down to editors, letting editors make those hard decisions, giving them more autonomy, and removing the layers of bureacracy which exist between programme editors and the very top of the Corporation.
Q: But that's what George Entwistle said he was doing - giving more autonomy to the editors and not butt in at every opportunity.
TL: No - he didn't say he was doing autonomy - I wish he were. He was saying he personally didn't want to know what they were doing as long as they were referring up properly through the chain. Look how long that chain was. It involved a Deputy Director of News, a Director of News, and above that a Director of Vision. There are too many layers of bureaucratic management at the BBC. They don't exist at other broadcasters; they don't exist in newspapers. What the BBC is demonstrating is that the bureacratic approach lets it down - that is where everybody is responsible for decisions, then nobody actually takes responsibility.
Q: And is the role of the DG too all-consuming, is it too big, does that need to be broken down?
TL: I think the role of DG is almost an historical anachronism; it's existed since John Reith in 1923. The truth is, it's far too big now. The BBC needs, I think, an Editor-in-Chief, responsible for all its journalism. It needs another lead there to take responsibility for its creative work. It isn't about creating different layers of bureaucracy, it's about saying one person doing this whole job is probably impossible ; perhaps one should be in charge of the journalism and another in charge of the creative side of the BBC.
(A very good interview I thought; the hosts and the pundit were very clear and constructive. When I did my Masters in management in the mid 1980s all the talk was about flat structures, few tiers of bureaucracy etc, but that hasn't reached the BBC!)