It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members if the bare possibility of racism is ever raised on this forum. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults directed at those who have dared to use the word. Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism is a factor in the way a housemate is viewed?
'The race card' as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find the topic threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
Hang about, Pav gets booed and it's racist, Steven gets booed and it's not
Are you saying that everyone who isn't white must be adored and revered
Steven was booed because he was seen by the viewers as arrogant, controlling, and generally not a nice person. Which makes the level of animosity towards him understandable in terms of the booing and chanting. Hence it is not down to the colour of his skin/religion/culture. Because there was a logical explanation for it and it was purely based on his personality.
The same can't be said for Pav, because he hasn't actually done anything to bring about such hostility. Dislike, yes. A few boos, yes. But hatred and chanting? There is nothing which he has personally done that justifies or explains it. so if it's not about his personality, then what else is it about?
Pav is getting booed and chanted as much (if not more) than Helen was several weeks ago when the Jale thing was going on. Y'know, when Helen was acting like a vile nasty little bully? Why does Pav, who hasn't bullied anyone, deserve as much chanting and booing as someone like Helen?
It certainly wasn't the worst Boo's this series or in any way any different to other Boo's I'm amazed that we have so many posters that are able to differentiate between the types of Boo's. I think overall the audience was far less vocal this week compared to some of the others. Unfortunately he just isn't very likeable or done anything to make him likeable I think the use if the word hate is being overused. I haven't seen anyone saying they hate him the majority of people have given reasons why he has not came across well or why he has not likeable. It appears to me that some people just can't accept that so want to try and turn it into some form of underlying discrimination.
Im sure Ashleighs supporters saw no reasons why she should be booed last week,maybe people were just anti Irish or anti blonde.
Why did BB9 Rachel get booed even when she won,she fits the same reason for me,she was dull..why do any of them get booed..your the one seemingly segregating Pav and treating him as a special case..he wears a turban so the booing must be racist..How many examples of boring or smug housemates would you like me to list before the penny drops that it was not because of his religion,skin colour or the fact he wore a turban.
It is absolutely pointless you trying to list other housemates over time who have been booed. No one disputes it (other than your suggestion of Rachel: she was overwhelmingly cheered, with a tiny number booing her.)
It is actually extremely rare for someone to be heavily booed for being 'dull'. Normally someone has to be seen as manipulative or a bitch or a bully or a strutting cock before they get that kind of treatment.
Thou shalt always see racism in everything and anyone who questioneth it is either racist or in denial.
Jeez, where are you getting this stuff? You're actually stereotyping anyone who's against racism like we're a homogenous hive mind of Guardian-reading liberals who look for offence everywhere when you have no actual evidence of this beyond your own prejudice.
Racism IS everywhere. Just cos you don't experience it doesn't make it the tooth fairy. I've had many friends of different ethnicities and class backgrounds and every single one had their own racism stories to tell in supposedly modern Britain. And I've worked with seemingly 'normal' professional people who come out with the most outrageous racist stuff without even realising they're doing it.
It's not as simple as "well Zoe is mixed race and she got cheers" or "but Sikhs aren't terrorists" (neither are most Muslims). Racists can be quite discerning about who they consider 'Other'.
I studied racism as part of social psychology and it's clearly a pernicious, often unconscious thing. Take one study of recruiters where the names were left off CVs and candidates were invited to interview based on merit, but the number dropped dramatically when an ethnic name was included. At its core, racism is apparently part of the human compulsion to in-group and out-group, a survival mechanism which most of us are guilty of and which we see all the time in BB.
Im not saying most of the crowd were racists. But all it took tonight was a few small-minded, racist arseholes to start the jeers and in classic group psychology fashion - the same impetus that can turn decent folk into football hooligans - the rest join in.
It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members if the bare possibility of racism is ever raised on this forum. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults directed at those who have dared to use the word. Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism is a factor in the way a housemate is viewed?
'The race card' as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find the topic threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
Absolutely agree. And let's add "PC Brigade" to the hoary cliches that get whipped out the second anyone mentions racism or sexism.
I think some people get off on finding racism in things.
It's the Guardian readers' equivalent of complaining about Routemaster buses in Foyle's War.
I find Racism gets dismissed far too quickly everytime it's mentioned on here, when Jade treated Shilpa the way she did people still felt that wasn't racist and frankly i think with some of argumentative people on here you could have a task revolving around the kkk and you would still find some people saying well it's just a tv show.
I'm not fully convinced Pav is being treated unfairly by the crowd based on racism but i wouldn't rule it out as i can't see anything he's done wrong.
I keep seeing people say well he's boring, so Biannca gets boo's for being overtly outrageous, Zoe gets boo's for being fake and too friendly, Pauline gets Boo's for being too outspoken' Ashleigh gets boo's for being a bitch and Kimberly gets boo"d for being 'trashy', so what is it we expect housemates to do? A housemate is witty and good with eveyone we say they are playing up to the cameras and playing the mr nice guy in the house, Mark we say is not being himself, Winston we say is playing dumb and Steven we say created a fake romance to generate interest in him and his 'journey'.
So knowing all that what can Pav do that won't allow people to dislike him? He came in seems genuine enough to me, spoke to everyone to their faces and in my opinion atleast has given more to the show than Winston or Zoe.
I hope Pav is given a chance as part of me feels his reaction tonight from the crowd may well be worst than the reaction Helen will get on the finale.
It is absolutely pointless you trying to list other housemates over time who have been booed. No one disputes it (other than your suggestion of Rachel: she was overwhelmingly cheered, with a tiny number booing her.)
It is actually extremely rare for someone to be heavily booed for being 'dull'. Normally someone has to be seen as manipulative or a bitch or a bully or a strutting cock before they get that kind of treatment.
From what I remember "boring" people generally get the muted almost silence from the crowd.
Jeez, where are you getting this stuff? You're actually stereotyping anyone who's against racism like we're a homogenous hive mind of Guardian-reading liberals who look for offence everywhere when you have no actual evidence of this beyond your own prejudice.
Racism IS everywhere. Just cos you don't experience it doesn't make it the tooth fairy. I've had many friends of different ethnicities and class backgrounds and every single one had their own racism stories to tell in supposedly modern Britain. And I've worked with seemingly 'normal' professional people who come out with the most outrageous racist stuff without even realising they're doing it.
It's not as simple as "well Zoe is mixed race and she got cheers" or "but Sikhs aren't terrorists" (neither are most Muslims). Racists can be quite discerning about who they consider 'Other'.
I studied racism as part of social psychology and it's clearly a pernicious, often unconscious thing. Take one study of recruiters where the names were left off CVs and candidates were invited to interview based on merit, but the number dropped dramatically when an ethnic name was included. At its core, racism is apparently part of the human compulsion to in-group and out-group, a survival mechanism which most of us are guilty of and which we see all the time in BB.
Im not saying most of the crowd were racists. But all it took tonight was a few small-minded, racist arseholes to start the jeers and in classic group psychology fashion - the same impetus that can turn decent folk into football hooligans - the rest join in.
It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members if the bare possibility of racism is ever raised on this forum. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults directed at those who have dared to use the word. Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism is a factor in the way a housemate is viewed?
'The race card' as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find the topic threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members at the bare possibility that any suggestion of racism might not be racism. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults of "racist" directed at those who have dared to question the orthodoxy of the religion of anti-racism.
Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism might not be a factor in some of the cases they mention?
"Racist" as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find any questioning of their views threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
Seems to me that the whole argument as to whether or not there may be an issue of underlying racism towards Pav is the assumption that there is unwarranted hatred being directed at him, rather than general dislike/indifference for a housemate.
Identify examples of real hatred as opposed to indifference/dislike?
Utter rubbish.
Most people in BB get undeserving boo's
British public saved pav.
I didnt see pav as any different to the others. The people who always scream racism are the ones who see pav as "different".
It is absolutely pointless you trying to list other housemates over time who have been booed. No one disputes it (other than your suggestion of Rachel: she was overwhelmingly cheered, with a tiny number booing her.)
It is actually extremely rare for someone to be heavily booed for being 'dull'. Normally someone has to be seen as manipulative or a bitch or a bully or a strutting cock before they get that kind of treatment.
He was a strutting cock when he first arrived. He's gone quiet now. Probably because he's not as big a character as some of the others. He's not the only non-white housemate to be heavily booed. Mark got some of it tonight, because of his behaviour in the house. Why is no-one allowed to dislike what they have seen of Pav in the house? To say "Pav is booed because he wears a turban, I find extemely insulting to Pav and the viewing public.
I'd love for someone to tell me why Pav is hated so much, to the point where he is getting mercilessly booed and chanted by the public and even had Steven making threatening comments about him (which he really should have been given a formal warning for.) I don't believe the theory of ''Oh, the public just boo anyone, there's nothing behind it.''
Steven got booed because of his arrogance and controlling behaviour, Helen got chanted because she's a vile bully, Ashleigh got booed because she was seen as cold hearted and manipulative, Marlon got booed because of his sexism and pressing the button, Ash got booed because of his sexist comments and alliance with Helen, Pauline got booed because she was a bully, Toya got booed because she was confrontational and hostile. Etc, etc.
There are logical explanations as to why everyone else got booed so strongly. But what exactly has Pav done to deserve it? Yes, he has come across as 'boring' which would explain people not liking him or maybe booing a little bit. But that doesn't explain the level of hatred which he is getting. And it's certainly not purely down to him being a 'new' housemate- Zoe and Bianca were well liked in the house, and Zoe is fast becoming a favourite to win. Nor is it to do with him being 'quiet' - Kim was quiet all the way through and was initially well liked until she got with Steven and was booed because of it.
So, in my opinion, there's only one logical explanation as to why he is the target of such pure hatred and hostility. And that's purely down to racism and the unwillingness of certain people to embrace other cultures/races/religions. I really believe if Pav had exactly the same personality but was a white male who dressed in traditional western clothing, people would have been largely indifferent to him (or at worst would have booed him slightly and labelled him as 'boring.') But he certainly wouldn't have been hated, because he has done nothing to deserve it.
An uncomfortable topic, but an important one.
I've never read such leftie bollocks... Why can't people dislike him for his character, you always get someone trying to play the race card, you aught to be ashamed of yourself.
He's been exposed as a 'game player', the worst possible sin in the eyes of a baying crowd.
Except upon further scrutiny every housemate whi has said this says 'well umm yeah it's kinda errr because ya know he's watched us for weeks and errr errr oh yeah that psychology degree yeah thats it we distrust him because of his psychology degree".
In actual fact he hasn't been exposed he's done nothing wrong.
Comments
You'll still sound racist.
Exactly
It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members if the bare possibility of racism is ever raised on this forum. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults directed at those who have dared to use the word. Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism is a factor in the way a housemate is viewed?
'The race card' as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find the topic threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
Unbelievable.
Clearly anti-racists - see above for exact definition of that term - are blinded by their own prejudice.
Steven was booed because he was seen by the viewers as arrogant, controlling, and generally not a nice person. Which makes the level of animosity towards him understandable in terms of the booing and chanting. Hence it is not down to the colour of his skin/religion/culture. Because there was a logical explanation for it and it was purely based on his personality.
The same can't be said for Pav, because he hasn't actually done anything to bring about such hostility. Dislike, yes. A few boos, yes. But hatred and chanting? There is nothing which he has personally done that justifies or explains it. so if it's not about his personality, then what else is it about?
Pav is getting booed and chanted as much (if not more) than Helen was several weeks ago when the Jale thing was going on. Y'know, when Helen was acting like a vile nasty little bully? Why does Pav, who hasn't bullied anyone, deserve as much chanting and booing as someone like Helen?
If you are anti-anti-racists, you'll sound racist.
Don't blame me.
It is absolutely pointless you trying to list other housemates over time who have been booed. No one disputes it (other than your suggestion of Rachel: she was overwhelmingly cheered, with a tiny number booing her.)
It is actually extremely rare for someone to be heavily booed for being 'dull'. Normally someone has to be seen as manipulative or a bitch or a bully or a strutting cock before they get that kind of treatment.
Jeez, where are you getting this stuff? You're actually stereotyping anyone who's against racism like we're a homogenous hive mind of Guardian-reading liberals who look for offence everywhere when you have no actual evidence of this beyond your own prejudice.
Racism IS everywhere. Just cos you don't experience it doesn't make it the tooth fairy. I've had many friends of different ethnicities and class backgrounds and every single one had their own racism stories to tell in supposedly modern Britain. And I've worked with seemingly 'normal' professional people who come out with the most outrageous racist stuff without even realising they're doing it.
It's not as simple as "well Zoe is mixed race and she got cheers" or "but Sikhs aren't terrorists" (neither are most Muslims). Racists can be quite discerning about who they consider 'Other'.
I studied racism as part of social psychology and it's clearly a pernicious, often unconscious thing. Take one study of recruiters where the names were left off CVs and candidates were invited to interview based on merit, but the number dropped dramatically when an ethnic name was included. At its core, racism is apparently part of the human compulsion to in-group and out-group, a survival mechanism which most of us are guilty of and which we see all the time in BB.
Im not saying most of the crowd were racists. But all it took tonight was a few small-minded, racist arseholes to start the jeers and in classic group psychology fashion - the same impetus that can turn decent folk into football hooligans - the rest join in.
I don't believe the majority of the British public are like that though, hence the fact that Steven was booted out.
Disappointed by the crowd tonight.
Absolutely agree. And let's add "PC Brigade" to the hoary cliches that get whipped out the second anyone mentions racism or sexism.
I find Racism gets dismissed far too quickly everytime it's mentioned on here, when Jade treated Shilpa the way she did people still felt that wasn't racist and frankly i think with some of argumentative people on here you could have a task revolving around the kkk and you would still find some people saying well it's just a tv show.
I'm not fully convinced Pav is being treated unfairly by the crowd based on racism but i wouldn't rule it out as i can't see anything he's done wrong.
I keep seeing people say well he's boring, so Biannca gets boo's for being overtly outrageous, Zoe gets boo's for being fake and too friendly, Pauline gets Boo's for being too outspoken' Ashleigh gets boo's for being a bitch and Kimberly gets boo"d for being 'trashy', so what is it we expect housemates to do? A housemate is witty and good with eveyone we say they are playing up to the cameras and playing the mr nice guy in the house, Mark we say is not being himself, Winston we say is playing dumb and Steven we say created a fake romance to generate interest in him and his 'journey'.
So knowing all that what can Pav do that won't allow people to dislike him? He came in seems genuine enough to me, spoke to everyone to their faces and in my opinion atleast has given more to the show than Winston or Zoe.
I hope Pav is given a chance as part of me feels his reaction tonight from the crowd may well be worst than the reaction Helen will get on the finale.
From what I remember "boring" people generally get the muted almost silence from the crowd.
Great point well made.
when i was a kid i liked nothing better than to watch nigel mansel whilst playing with my toy model ferraris
VROOM.
It is absolutely impossible to miss the immediate, knee-jerk reaction of some forum members at the bare possibility that any suggestion of racism might not be racism. They don't want to debate it, or to give any thought to it, just to close down the discussion, sometimes with personal insults of "racist" directed at those who have dared to question the orthodoxy of the religion of anti-racism.
Do these people honestly believe it to be impossible that racism might not be a factor in some of the cases they mention?
"Racist" as an expression is a dead giveaway of a forum member who just can't stand the subject being debated; they obviously find any questioning of their views threatening, so instead of trying to discuss it, they try to stop anyone else doing so.
I was pretty good at the 100 metres at school
Identify examples of real hatred as opposed to indifference/dislike?
Most people in BB get undeserving boo's
British public saved pav.
I didnt see pav as any different to the others. The people who always scream racism are the ones who see pav as "different".
Ahh i thought you were going down the I'm a racist based on my hatred for marathons route.
He was a strutting cock when he first arrived. He's gone quiet now. Probably because he's not as big a character as some of the others. He's not the only non-white housemate to be heavily booed. Mark got some of it tonight, because of his behaviour in the house. Why is no-one allowed to dislike what they have seen of Pav in the house? To say "Pav is booed because he wears a turban, I find extemely insulting to Pav and the viewing public.
I've never read such leftie bollocks... Why can't people dislike him for his character, you always get someone trying to play the race card, you aught to be ashamed of yourself.
Agree 100%
Except upon further scrutiny every housemate whi has said this says 'well umm yeah it's kinda errr because ya know he's watched us for weeks and errr errr oh yeah that psychology degree yeah thats it we distrust him because of his psychology degree".
In actual fact he hasn't been exposed he's done nothing wrong.