So what's the problem with starting the overtake earlier?
Because then you will probably end up in front of the same middle-lane car you were before! The driver behind will be bemused at your pointless excursion. And it is pointless, unless this is a 2-lane carriageway and you've offered them a passing opportunity.
Exactly. Also, a considerate, competent driver will know whether pulling in will result in them being boxed in as they're able to take into consideration 3 things - their speed, the speed of the traffic in lane 1 and the speed of the traffic behind them. If the gap is big enough , pull in. If not, stay in lane 2 (or 3).
The speed of the traffic behind you will likely be the same as yours! Here there are two possibilities:
(1) You move to lane one, the cars that had been behind you stay at the same speed, and remain at the same lateral position relative to you. When you eventually move back to lane 2, nothing will have changed, the whole manoeuvre was a waste of time. Or:
(2) The cars behind you take the opportunity to move up. Which means when you need to get back over, you're boxed in.
Have you watched the video that has been posted a couple of times? Do you see what is wrong with the driving in that?
Yes, blondie. I think everyone on this thread understands that in some cases, as shown on that video, middle lane hogging is not advisable. It's not exactly rocket science ...
Unfortunately some people on this thread seem to be ignoring that lanes are not "empty" most of the time on British motorways. Specific circumstances and safety considerations have been explained a number of times, yet some refuse to have a sensible discussion about them.
If two trucks are doing 56mph how can the truck behind catch the one in front.
Unless the front one is going considerably slower or slows down.
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Yes of course - all trucks on the motorway drive at exactly 56 miles per hour at all times. I suppose you have never seen a truck overtake another truck in all your many years on the road?
It is a fact that if you drive on roads like the M25 (eg. from M1 to Dartford), are doing so at a quiet time (eg. 3am), and plan on staying in lane one, then you will be constantly shunted from lane to lane as the motorway changes between 2, 3 and 4 lanes.
It appears you see having to change lane as a inconvenience. I see lane discipline as part of correct driving, much like using the accelerator or brake.
Have you ever missed a motorway junction, or unexpectedly found yourself in a filter lane, or in fact ever missed any road sign at all?
I've missed a motorway junction - so what? It's a few minutes added onto the journey usually, a minor delay. What I won't do is to drive like a plank to avoid any possibility of doing so.
If two trucks are doing 56mph how can the truck behind catch the one in front.
Unless the front one is going considerably slower or slows down.
Then the car driver should be able to react accordingly, either pull in making sure they can pull out again, or stay out, its quite simple, though some are making it sound harder than it really is.
Not quite right Trucks are limited to do either 55-56 or 57MPH.
Yes, blondie. I think everyone on this thread understands that in some cases, as shown on that video, middle lane hogging is not advisable. It's not exactly rocket science ...
Unfortunately some people on this thread seem to be ignoring that lanes are not "empty" most of the time on British motorways. Specific circumstances and safety considerations have been explained a number of times, yet some refuse to have a sensible discussion about them.
Yet some are ignoring the law, always drive on the left hand lane, only use the middle & right hand lane when you're overtaking slower moving vehicles. then move back to the left hand lane when it's clear & safe to do so.
I do feel some on this thread are deliberately on a wind up, there is nothing to discuss when it's written in law end of.
Because then you will probably end up in front of the same middle-lane car you were before! The driver behind will be bemused at your pointless excursion. And it is pointless, unless this is a 2-lane carriageway and you've offered them a passing opportunity.
The speed of the traffic behind you will likely be the same as yours! Here there are two possibilities:
(1) You move to lane one, the cars that had been behind you stay at the same speed, and remain at the same lateral position relative to you. When you eventually move back to lane 2, nothing will have changed, the whole manoeuvre was a waste of time. Or:
(2) The cars behind you take the opportunity to move up. Which means when you need to get back over, you're boxed in.
If you are in a line of cars, all doing the same speed in the overtaking lane, actively overtaking vehicles in the left hand lane, why would you pull in?
It's only middle lane hogging if there is nothing to overtake, in which case you do pull in.
This is an absurd thread for so many, many reasons.
Indeed, I do think many of the haters on this thread need to refer back to the OP, which describes "weaving" between the 1st and 2nd lanes.
The key question here is - how much space does there need to be ahead of you in lane 1 to make it worthwhile switching back over to the left?
It was established many pages ago that half a mile is a good distance.
No, I seem to remember you stating it should be half a mile, but how do you judge that? How good are you, really, at determining how far a car is away when you are both driving at 70mph plus? For instance, If I'm on a dual carriageway, and I'm being tailgated in the overtaking lane I will pull into much smaller gaps than half a mile to let the guy go, and pull back out afterwards. I won't stay in a lane with some **** up my arse just because the gap is less than half a mile - which is actually quite a lot of room seeing as a car is what, 10-15 feet long?
It's situation dependent. It's daft to put rules on it. You make a judgement as to relative speeds and distances of the cars around you, and you pick the most appropriate position and speed for your own car. What you don't do is blindly stick to one lane to avoid having to make such decisions.
Indeed, I do think many of the haters on this thread need to refer back to the OP, which describes "weaving" between the 1st and 2nd lanes.
The key question here is - how much space does there need to be ahead of you in lane 1 to make it worthwhile switching back over to the left?
It was established many pages ago that half a mile is a good distance.
Who is seriously advocating weaving in and out of lane 1? As far as I can see most posters are agreed that staying in lane 2 if the traffic conditions in lane 1 are such that there are no suitable gaps to get into is not by any definition middle lane hogging or wrong. You are overtaking other vehicles.
It is overtaking fresh air for mile after mile that is questionable.
No, I seem to remember you stating it should be half a mile, but how do you judge that? How good are you, really, at determining how far a car is away when you are both driving at 70mph plus?
It's situation dependent. It's daft to put rules on it. You make a judgement as to relative speeds and distances of the cars around you, and you pick the most appropriate position and speed for your own car. What you don't do is blindly stick to one lane to avoid having to make such decisions.
No it was not me - someone else said a driving expert told them this. I think it's a much better and safer solution to stay in the middle lane with all the other drivers at 70 mph, until there is a good half-mile gap ahead. Otherwise, you will be weaving back and forth, taking over one truck after the other, and potentially getting stuck while you are overtaken by all the other cars sensible enough to just stay in the middle lane.
If you find it difficult to judge, with experience, how big half a mile gap is - how about a gap which will allow you to stay in the left-hand lane for at least one minute? This might be easier for you to work out.
And if you're not paying to much attention to the exit signs (perhaps you know yours is still a couple of hours away), you will frequently end up in a left filter land and on a different motorway!
The fact that someone can't be bothered to pay attention to what is going on around them is justification for poor driving?
You've not really thought this one through, have you?
Who is seriously advocating weaving in and out of lane 1?
Those people who get annoyed that they might have to move over to lane 3 if they want to maintain their speed of 90 mph. They think the "slow" people driving at the speed limit should be more "considerate" and move out of their way.
No it was not me - someone else said a driving expert told them this. I think it's a much better and safer solution to stay in the middle lane with all the other drivers at 70 mph, until there is a good half-mile gap ahead. Otherwise, you will be weaving back and forth, taking over one truck after the other, and potentially getting stuck while you are overtaken by all the other cars sensible enough to just stay in the middle lane.
If you find it difficult to judge, with experience, how big half a mile gap is - how about a gap which will allow you to stay in the left-hand lane for at least one minute? This might be easier for you to work out.
Like I said, it's situation dependent. If you are in a line of traffic, all doing 70mph and actively overtaking then yes, it's best to stay in the overtaking lane. If there is nothing to overtake though, you pull in. If you are in the overtaking lane and someone comes up much faster behind you, and you are able to move over to let them past, then pull in. The key thing is, as many, many posters have been saying for many, many pages, is that you engage your brain.
Well done on completely twisting my words in your second paragraph, though.
Yes, blondie. I think everyone on this thread understands that in some cases, as shown on that video, middle lane hogging is not advisable. It's not exactly rocket science ...
Unfortunately some people on this thread seem to be ignoring that lanes are not "empty" most of the time on British motorways. Specific circumstances and safety considerations have been explained a number of times, yet some refuse to have a sensible discussion about them.
So you agree that the video shows cases of MLH but most of those don't have a gap of half a mile inside them so surely you can see that a gap shorter than that can be perfectly save to pull back into to avoid hogging the middle lane?
Like I said, it's situation dependent. If you are in a line of traffic, all doing 70mph and actively overtaking then yes, it's best to stay in the overtaking lane. If there is nothing to overtake though, you pull in. If you are in the overtaking lane and someone comes up much faster behind you, and you are able to move over to let them past, then do so.
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I agree with everything you said above apart from the BIB.
People should NOT be expected to "get out of the way" of drivers who decide they want to speed (with the exception of ambulances, the police etc., which should go without saying). Especially considering there is usually a third lane they can use to overtake if they really want.
So you agree that the video shows cases of MLH but most of those don't have a gap of half a mile inside them so surely you can see that a gap shorter than that can be perfectly save to pull back into to avoid hogging the middle lane?
I the part of the video I saw, the "hoggers" were not even overtaking anyone.
I agree with everything you said above apart from the BIB.
People should NOT be expected to "get out of the way" of drivers who decide they want to speed (with the exception of ambulances, the police etc., which should go without saying). Especially considering there is usually a third lane they can use to overtake if they really want.
If there is room for you in the lane 1 that is were you should be anyway, as you are staying in lane 2 which is a overtaking lane the same as lane 3 is
I agree with everything you said above apart from the BIB.
People should NOT be expected to "get out of the way" of drivers who decide they want to speed (with the exception of ambulances, the police etc., which should go without saying). Especially considering there is usually a third lane they can use to overtake if they really want.
I didn't say people should be expected to get out of the way, only that, if you can, than you should think about doing so.
I'd rather suffer the non-inconvenience of pulling left for a short time compared to having someone right up my tailpipe.
One problem which has also been pointed out many times is.... are you really travelling at 70mph.
If you're sitting in the middle lane, you've probably got the needle on something like 67-69, but could actually be doing 64. So then when someone is behind you in the middle lane and they're going 70-73, they need you to move because they can't pull into the "fast lane" because everyone in that lane will be going even quicker, if they do pull over, it causes congestion.
I am constantly passing people in the middle lane who are doing well below 70, I know this because I don't really go past 70 myself, too tight on the petrol you see.
I don't see what's so hard about it, if there's plenty of space in the left lane, move into it. It's got nothing to do with you if anyone else is breaking the law, you do your part and let them worry about theirs.
Indeed, I do think many of the haters on this thread need to refer back to the OP, which describes "weaving" between the 1st and 2nd lanes.
The key question here is - how much space does there need to be ahead of you in lane 1 to make it worthwhile switching back over to the left?
It was established many pages ago that half a mile is a good distance.
If you have to ask that you should not really be on the motorway in the first place.
There's no time or distance, every situation will be different, closing speed will be the factor.
If you can pull in, let a car or cars pass then are able to pull back out to overtake if needed then its obvious the gap/time was adequate, if you get boxed in it wasn't.
So you'd leave a half mile distance between you and the vehicle on the inside lane when the closing speed could be as little as 2mph, do you realise how long you would be traveling in the middle lane?
I agree with everything you said above apart from the BIB.
People should NOT be expected to "get out of the way" of drivers who decide they want to speed (with the exception of ambulances, the police etc., which should go without saying). Especially considering there is usually a third lane they can use to overtake if they really want.
Typical behaviour of a lane hogger......
I'm doing 70mph so no one should be passing me.
If the inside lane is clear then you are required to move over whether the car wanting to pass is speeding or its a ( insert performance car of your choice).
If you are deemed to be driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner then you could be faced with a FPN.
Comments
Because then you will probably end up in front of the same middle-lane car you were before! The driver behind will be bemused at your pointless excursion. And it is pointless, unless this is a 2-lane carriageway and you've offered them a passing opportunity.
The speed of the traffic behind you will likely be the same as yours! Here there are two possibilities:
(1) You move to lane one, the cars that had been behind you stay at the same speed, and remain at the same lateral position relative to you. When you eventually move back to lane 2, nothing will have changed, the whole manoeuvre was a waste of time. Or:
(2) The cars behind you take the opportunity to move up. Which means when you need to get back over, you're boxed in.
Yes, blondie. I think everyone on this thread understands that in some cases, as shown on that video, middle lane hogging is not advisable. It's not exactly rocket science ...
Unfortunately some people on this thread seem to be ignoring that lanes are not "empty" most of the time on British motorways. Specific circumstances and safety considerations have been explained a number of times, yet some refuse to have a sensible discussion about them.
Yes of course - all trucks on the motorway drive at exactly 56 miles per hour at all times.
I've missed a motorway junction - so what? It's a few minutes added onto the journey usually, a minor delay. What I won't do is to drive like a plank to avoid any possibility of doing so.
Not quite right Trucks are limited to do either 55-56 or 57MPH.
Yet some are ignoring the law, always drive on the left hand lane, only use the middle & right hand lane when you're overtaking slower moving vehicles. then move back to the left hand lane when it's clear & safe to do so.
I do feel some on this thread are deliberately on a wind up, there is nothing to discuss when it's written in law end of.
If you are in a line of cars, all doing the same speed in the overtaking lane, actively overtaking vehicles in the left hand lane, why would you pull in?
It's only middle lane hogging if there is nothing to overtake, in which case you do pull in.
This is an absurd thread for so many, many reasons.
Indeed, I do think many of the haters on this thread need to refer back to the OP, which describes "weaving" between the 1st and 2nd lanes.
The key question here is - how much space does there need to be ahead of you in lane 1 to make it worthwhile switching back over to the left?
It was established many pages ago that half a mile is a good distance.
No, I seem to remember you stating it should be half a mile, but how do you judge that? How good are you, really, at determining how far a car is away when you are both driving at 70mph plus? For instance, If I'm on a dual carriageway, and I'm being tailgated in the overtaking lane I will pull into much smaller gaps than half a mile to let the guy go, and pull back out afterwards. I won't stay in a lane with some **** up my arse just because the gap is less than half a mile - which is actually quite a lot of room seeing as a car is what, 10-15 feet long?
It's situation dependent. It's daft to put rules on it. You make a judgement as to relative speeds and distances of the cars around you, and you pick the most appropriate position and speed for your own car. What you don't do is blindly stick to one lane to avoid having to make such decisions.
Who is seriously advocating weaving in and out of lane 1? As far as I can see most posters are agreed that staying in lane 2 if the traffic conditions in lane 1 are such that there are no suitable gaps to get into is not by any definition middle lane hogging or wrong. You are overtaking other vehicles.
It is overtaking fresh air for mile after mile that is questionable.
No it was not me - someone else said a driving expert told them this. I think it's a much better and safer solution to stay in the middle lane with all the other drivers at 70 mph, until there is a good half-mile gap ahead. Otherwise, you will be weaving back and forth, taking over one truck after the other, and potentially getting stuck while you are overtaken by all the other cars sensible enough to just stay in the middle lane.
If you find it difficult to judge, with experience, how big half a mile gap is - how about a gap which will allow you to stay in the left-hand lane for at least one minute? This might be easier for you to work out.
The fact that someone can't be bothered to pay attention to what is going on around them is justification for poor driving?
You've not really thought this one through, have you?
Clearly they do apply - because as your (ludicrous) point stated, if you weren't to pay attention to them, you'll end up on a different motorway.
Those people who get annoyed that they might have to move over to lane 3 if they want to maintain their speed of 90 mph. They think the "slow" people driving at the speed limit should be more "considerate" and move out of their way.
Like I said, it's situation dependent. If you are in a line of traffic, all doing 70mph and actively overtaking then yes, it's best to stay in the overtaking lane. If there is nothing to overtake though, you pull in. If you are in the overtaking lane and someone comes up much faster behind you, and you are able to move over to let them past, then pull in. The key thing is, as many, many posters have been saying for many, many pages, is that you engage your brain.
Well done on completely twisting my words in your second paragraph, though.
So you agree that the video shows cases of MLH but most of those don't have a gap of half a mile inside them so surely you can see that a gap shorter than that can be perfectly save to pull back into to avoid hogging the middle lane?
I agree with everything you said above apart from the BIB.
People should NOT be expected to "get out of the way" of drivers who decide they want to speed (with the exception of ambulances, the police etc., which should go without saying). Especially considering there is usually a third lane they can use to overtake if they really want.
I the part of the video I saw, the "hoggers" were not even overtaking anyone.
But they are still in the middle lane with less than half a mile between them and the vehicle on the inside lane, which is my point.
If there is room for you in the lane 1 that is were you should be anyway, as you are staying in lane 2 which is a overtaking lane the same as lane 3 is
I didn't say people should be expected to get out of the way, only that, if you can, than you should think about doing so.
I'd rather suffer the non-inconvenience of pulling left for a short time compared to having someone right up my tailpipe.
If you're sitting in the middle lane, you've probably got the needle on something like 67-69, but could actually be doing 64. So then when someone is behind you in the middle lane and they're going 70-73, they need you to move because they can't pull into the "fast lane" because everyone in that lane will be going even quicker, if they do pull over, it causes congestion.
I am constantly passing people in the middle lane who are doing well below 70, I know this because I don't really go past 70 myself, too tight on the petrol you see.
I don't see what's so hard about it, if there's plenty of space in the left lane, move into it. It's got nothing to do with you if anyone else is breaking the law, you do your part and let them worry about theirs.
If you have to ask that you should not really be on the motorway in the first place.
There's no time or distance, every situation will be different, closing speed will be the factor.
If you can pull in, let a car or cars pass then are able to pull back out to overtake if needed then its obvious the gap/time was adequate, if you get boxed in it wasn't.
So you'd leave a half mile distance between you and the vehicle on the inside lane when the closing speed could be as little as 2mph, do you realise how long you would be traveling in the middle lane?
Typical behaviour of a lane hogger......
I'm doing 70mph so no one should be passing me.
If the inside lane is clear then you are required to move over whether the car wanting to pass is speeding or its a ( insert performance car of your choice).
If you are deemed to be driving in a careless or inconsiderate manner then you could be faced with a FPN.
I do the same - for the sake of safety! Better to get out of those people's way IMO ...