Erotica and Bedtime Stories didn't make number one, so Rebel Heart is in good company
These are my 3 least favourite Madonna albums and none of them were number ones. I'm still really struggleing to enjoy Rebel Heart, I want to like it but I just don't.
These are my 3 least favourite Madonna albums and none of them were number ones. I'm still really struggleing to enjoy Rebel Heart, I want to like it but I just don't.
Today, I listened to Ray of Light (which reached #2 in USA), Music, American Life (again - really starting to adore this album) and Rebel Heart. As much as I like RH, it does come across as fairly disjointed. Bitch, I'm Madonna really spoil it for me. You have five great tracks in a row, then BiM really destroys the flow. It is fairly a messy tracklist order compared to the previous albums. It is an album of hers that I think is fabulous now, but probably won't play very much in a couple of months, instead going back to her older material. I love Music, I love MDNA too, I said last night that actually listening to MDNA after RH, it sounds stronger and flows much more cohesively.
That said, I do like RH. It is a fabulous pop album and definetely deserved the number 1 slot. But hey ho, such is life and as long as the tour sells and Interscope make back their £40m after the third album has come, then no one is really going to care - except the fans!
These are my 3 least favourite Madonna albums and none of them were number ones. I'm still really struggleing to enjoy Rebel Heart, I want to like it but I just don't.
Why? Rebel Heart is probably her most eclectic album. Something for everyone. I don't see how someone can't find something on to enjoy, even if they don't like every song. In some ways it has something in common with American Life, in that it's probably one of her least "dance" and "club" oriented albums. Living for Love is really the only typical dance track.
I love that. I'm not a huge club person. I like the more song pop driven feel of it. But I do wonder if she will do remixes of some of the songs for the tour. Some of the songs may not fit in with the traditional style of her tour with dancers and choreography. But I love the album.
She said she tried to write good songs and not think so much about production at first and it really shows.
Today, I listened to Ray of Light (which reached #2 in USA), Music, American Life (again - really starting to adore this album) and Rebel Heart. As much as I like RH, it does come across as fairly disjointed. Bitch, I'm Madonna really spoil it for me. You have five great tracks in a row, then BiM really destroys the flow. It is fairly a messy tracklist order compared to the previous albums. It is an album of hers that I think is fabulous now, but probably won't play very much in a couple of months, instead going back to her older material. I love Music, I love MDNA too, I said last night that actually listening to MDNA after RH, it sounds stronger and flows much more cohesively.
That said, I do like RH. It is a fabulous pop album and definetely deserved the number 1 slot. But hey ho, such is life and as long as the tour sells and Interscope make back their £40m after the third album has come, then no one is really going to care - except the fans!
I guess I don't look for cohesiveness in albums. In fact if they are cohesive, I get bored. I usually only listen to albums in the order of the cd a few times. I tend to pick out songs I love and mix them in playlists with songs by other artists. To me there's no comparison between RH and MDNA. I like MDNA, but Rebel Heart is so much better. RH has many more timeless melodies than I can see myself listening to years from now and enjoying. Whereas MDNA feels more of the moment. There's so much more heart and feeling and depth to Rebel Heart than MDNA.
I guess I don't look for cohesiveness in albums. In fact if they are cohesive, I get bored. I usually only listen to albums in the order of the cd a few times. I tend to pick out songs I love and mix them in playlists with songs by other artists. To me there's no comparison between RH and MDNA. I like MDNA, but Rebel Heart is so much better. RH has many more timeless melodies than I can see myself listening to years from now and enjoying. Whereas MDNA feels more of the moment. There's so much more heart and feeling and depth to Rebel Heart than MDNA.
I guess as Madonna fans, we have been spoilt over the years. Even her "bad" albums are good, but her bad albums are always divisive. It is easy being a Madonna fan when her fans universally agree that an album is great. Not so easy when the albums divide opinion. Why is it not easy? Because it is hard to try and say what you like about the 'bad' record when others are expressing their dislike, and of course vice versa. The very fact that she divides opinion suggests in itself that her 'bad' albums are subjective and is purely down to a matter of preference which means they're also good.. For instance you hear MDNA as being more of the moment, whereas I hear it as melodic, relevant and current. I hear RH as an album full of superb pop songs, and I agree that you can tell she has really put her all into the songwriting. But, I don't get the "WOW!" from it that I got from her past albums - even Hard Candy. Hard Candy made me feel excited when I heard Give It 2 Me and Heartbeat, but again, it was an album I played for a while but then stopped listening to it.
Maybe the problem with RH is that I have heard it too often before release. There was excitement last Monday when I waited for my copy from Amazon. Then there became disappointment when it didn't come. So, I went to Sainsburys and they only had the standard. But I bought it simply because I had received or purchased every Madonna album on release day since Like a Prayer was released. I didn't want to not have it last Monday, so I had the "Oh it'll have to do" standard version. My Amazon copy came last Tuesday. But the excitement had gone and I haven't heard Rebel Heart since Thursday. I still want it to do well, her vocals are amazing on all the ballad tracks, but I think I'm just pissed off with the way the whole era has been handled and I've subconsciously given up on it. I can't even afford tickets to the tour because they're really expensive.
There you go again, this is not a Madonna thread, that is what your appreciation forum is for, this thread is in a general music discussion, which means everything is fair game....just give back as good as you get, and don't expect all posts to be praise in a general thread.
This isn't a Madonna thread? Are you sure?
I could have sworn the title was 'Madonna-Rebel Heart'!
Although due to the fact we had the first 9 tracks already available, my brain has kinda split the album up into two halves. Living for Love to Iconic I already knew pretty well so this week i've been focusing on the 2nd half. I have to say that the latter tracks are among the strongest.
I guess as Madonna fans, we have been spoilt over the years. Even her "bad" albums are good, but her bad albums are always divisive. It is easy being a Madonna fan when her fans universally agree that an album is great. Not so easy when the albums divide opinion. Why is it not easy? Because it is hard to try and say what you like about the 'bad' record when others are expressing their dislike, and of course vice versa. The very fact that she divides opinion suggests in itself that her 'bad' albums are subjective and is purely down to a matter of preference which means they're also good.. For instance you hear MDNA as being more of the moment, whereas I hear it as melodic, relevant and current. I hear RH as an album full of superb pop songs, and I agree that you can tell she has really put her all into the songwriting. But, I don't get the "WOW!" from it that I got from her past albums - even Hard Candy. Hard Candy made me feel excited when I heard Give It 2 Me and Heartbeat, but again, it was an album I played for a while but then stopped listening to it.
Maybe the problem with RH is that I have heard it too often before release. There was excitement last Monday when I waited for my copy from Amazon. Then there became disappointment when it didn't come. So, I went to Sainsburys and they only had the standard. But I bought it simply because I had received or purchased every Madonna album on release day since Like a Prayer was released. I didn't want to not have it last Monday, so I had the "Oh it'll have to do" standard version. My Amazon copy came last Tuesday. But the excitement had gone and I haven't heard Rebel Heart since Thursday. I still want it to do well, her vocals are amazing on all the ballad tracks, but I think I'm just pissed off with the way the whole era has been handled and I've subconsciously given up on it. I can't even afford tickets to the tour because they're really expensive.
That's interesting. Madonna fans are a diverse lot. But I think the general feeling at forums about Rebel Heart is most fans seem to love it. Hard Candy and MDNA were much more divisive. It's great that you love them as do I , but that seemed to be a minority opinion among most fans. I have not really read too much negativity about Rebel Heart from fans. Some of the more ballad stuff like Ghosttown, Heartbreak City, Wash All Over Me and Joan of Arc seems to have won back some of the older fans who were turned off by HC and MDNA. And a lot of people are saying that her vocals are much better on RH than the last two albums.
I won't lie, I'm really disappointed it didn't get to no 1. I sorta feel this whole era is mirroring Bedtime Stories...
Also, while I won't deny Sam Smith his success, he seems to follow a pattern that the British Public always set. One person becomes "the" one to follow for a while and they are everywhere for a period of time and then the public moves on. We've seen ti so many times, Dido, Norah Jones, Alanis Morrisette, Emil Sande etc etc..people who are flavour of the month with a certain area of the amrket , then can't follow up.
Even though Adele had huge success with 21, I'm not even sure she can come back to that level of success either. People are so fickle.
That's interesting. Madonna fans are a diverse lot. But I think the general feeling at forums about Rebel Heart is most fans seem to love it. Hard Candy and MDNA were much more divisive. It's great that you love them as do I , but that seemed to be a minority opinion among most fans. I have not really read too much negativity about Rebel Heart from fans. Some of the more ballad stuff like Ghosttown, Heartbreak City, Wash All Over Me and Joan of Arc seems to have won back some of the older fans who were turned off by HC and MDNA. And a lot of people are saying that her vocals are much better on RH than the last two albums.
I think I'm trying to say that I agree that RH is a really good album. To call it a bad album would be ludicrous. It is also her best lyrically since Confessions. (I love Like It Or Not - one of the best M songs ever), and I do really love the ballads on RH. As a fan, I am part of the universe who says it is a great album. But, (and it is only a small but), I just don't get the tingles from it like I did other albums of hers.
I think the magic of hearing new Madonna music was totally wiped away from the leaks. It is my fault, I tried to resist, but people were saying how much they loved them. So, I relented. I heard them. I felt slightly underwhelmed, partly because they were demos and clearly unfinished, but also because I felt guilty. This has probably affected how I perceive the album now. I don't like Bitch, I'm Madonna. It really is a moronic track and really does scream of "look at how wiv da yoof I am." Of course, I do think RH is worthy of awards and fully appreciat it as a personal and honest album. But, I am saddened at how Madonna's career is so badly handled now and that has also affected the way I view her work. It makes me think "Why is she bothering? Interscope don't give a toss about her!" It is difficult to explain, but I am so disillusioned by everything at the moment (not just Madonna wise - I'm going through a rough patch), it is hard for me to fully enjoy the album.
Perhaps that's why I enjoy MDNA. It is lighter and fluffier (well except Gang Bang that still scares the shit out of me!), and is easy to absorb into.
I guess the leaks didn't affect me as much. I didn't download them to my computer. I just listened to them once or twice in streaming form. Honestly, now most of them I don't remember precisely how they sounded or how they were different from the album versions.
It doesn't really bother me that it didn't debut at #1 or how badly her career is handled as long as we get new music and tours. I only worry about bad management if that somehow leads to music not being released or tours being cancelled.
I guess I pay no attention to chart positions really because I would say 90% or more of the artists I love are indie/alternative artists who don't really chart very high. What I care about is that music is released and I enjoy it.
I think you just have to be realistic. Madonna is not going to have the same success as younger artists. Compared to most artists who started out in the 80's she is doing far better than they are chartwise.No matter how she is managed she is not going to have the same success as she did in the 80's and 90's because she is older and because people don't buy albums like they used to.
I am loving this whole era. I love that she is doing interviews and tv promo. I like reading interviews with her and how she thinks about her music. That was one thing that was missing in the HC and MDNA eras. A lot of it is maybe more in the US but you can read so many cool interviews with her online.
Rebel Heart is a decent enough Album, but i always feel that Madonna albums always work best with a sole producer-or a couple at most.
Like a Prayer works extremely well and cohesively because the Nature of the work she did with Stephen Bray complemented the Stuff with Patrick Leonard perfectly-they were flip sides to the same coin (The Prince Song -can't remember the name right now-was the one mis-step on that Album.)
Ray of Light works brilliantly because Orbit challenges EVERY aspect of Madonna. The Lyrics are more in depth and raw, her vocals are even more extremely varied and mature (an extension of her work on Evita)
Confessions hangs together due to Stuart Price-simple as. The variety of songs on there would never work as a cohesive whole without a common background.
Doing a couple of tracks her, a few there, and the odd one with someone else, makes Rebel Heart feel disjointed to me. There are some great numbers on there, but it feels more like a 'random shuffle' album than a properly executed collection with a 'theme' and progression.
I'm not a huge M fan-but I do appreciate a lot of her music, and value the fact that Pop Music today would be a very different beast without her innovations and stance. So often ahead of her times, it feels that her past three albums have purely tried to catch the tail end of already fading trends, and using producers more interested in utilising her as a method of promoting their own work and agendas, rather than producers who will use their skill set as way to get her working in unusual and unexpected ways.
She needs to go back to using producers who are 'producers'-not artists in their own rights. Trying to find sounds unique to her again, and setting trends rather than just copying them.
She seems a much more' human', humourous and relatable person nowadays-that's something that is coming across in her online persona and NOT in her music.
She needs to go back to using producers who are 'producers'-not artists in their own rights. Trying to find sounds unique to her again, and setting trends rather than just copying them.
She seems a much more' human', humourous and relatable person nowadays-that's something that is coming across in her online persona and NOT in her music.
We can but hope. However, I'm not sure we will see another madonna album for a long time and if we do, i don't think it will be in the way she has doen before. Madonna on average does a new album every 2 to 3 years. So the next one that comes out, she will be pushing 60. I would also like to see her work with just a few people and stay focused and also not any DJ's.
Just home Ghosttown catches the ear of the casuals and helps stablise the album and give it some legs.
I don't see trends on this album at all. She worked with some songwriters like Mozella who aren't just dj's.
But she has worked with dj's from the beginning of her career such as Jellybean. I can't see her totally abandoning dj's and not working with them because that's part of music that she relates to.
There are a lot of vulnerable human and also humourous moments on this album so I don't understand how people say that isn't coming through in her music, but just in her interviews.
There are a lot of vulnerable human and also humourous moments on this album so I don't understand how people say that isn't coming through in her music, but just in her interviews.
I think you just have to be realistic. Madonna is not going to have the same success as younger artists. Compared to most artists who started out in the 80's she is doing far better than they are chartwise.No matter how she is managed she is not going to have the same success as she did in the 80's and 90's because she is older and because people don't buy albums like they used to.
But she was 46 when Confessions was released - 46 is certainly 'older' than the likes of Taylor, Rihanna & Katy - but it just exploded; everything about that era was just bang on; the image, the music, the single choices, the tour - everything went perfectly & she sold 12m copies of that album worldwide, with Hung Up selling 5m copies worldwide. And this was the follow up to the (alleged) flop, American Life (which I like, btw). AL sold 5m & was considered a flop - wouldn't we all love if RH could manage to sell anywhere near that.
The leaks certainly have not helped RH, because it's a great album - I'm absolutely loving it. As I've said before, I sort of hate that she had to release six songs before Christmas & then three more in February - we'd all heard half the album before we bought it - and I'll admit I had looked up a few of the other songs on YouTube so I knew most of the songs before I had the album. That took away from the experience of buying a new album & not knowing any of the songs except whatever single(s) had already been released. Still though, it's great to have new Madonna music.
I don't know if social media & internet has done her any favours either. I know it's the age we live in now but compare now to ten years ago. Facebook & YouTube had barely started & there was no Twitter or Instagram. Celebrities were not as easily accessible so there was more of an air of mystery about them & so new album releases were more highly anticipated. There probably weren't all these forums either or comments sections on news/entertainment sites, where unfortunately a lot of people are now spouting nasty opinions - in Madonna's case, ageism - and it's spreading. You will not find an article on the internet about Madonna these days that doesn't feature at least one comment along the lines of "retire Grandma!"
All of the above coupled with the fact that downloads are killing CD sales, doesn't help matters. A lot has changed in the last ten years.
So much drama online. Anyone would think her new album had entered at #60 rather than #2. Are you we really going to resort to begging on Facebook? I would block anyone I know for doing something like that. And I wish people would stop going on and on about how Madonna would have entered at #1 had it not been for Sam Smith performing on Comic Relief. Most artists who have released an album that has peaked at #2 probably wouldn’t have done so had the artist that beat them to #1 done things differently. Kylie would have peaked at #1 last year if George Michael hadn’t released his album in the same week. It happens, get over it.
Do we really need to resort to calling other artists names and trivialising their careers? It’s childish and juvenile. I think some people need a little bit of air. Madonna talks about everyone respecting and loving each other, so it's a shame that some people are so quick to become mean-spirited over something so trivial. Do you really think Madonna is sitting up tonight worrying because she got to #2? I doubt it, it's not the first time in her career, and it probably won't be the last. The album is charting well around the world, hopefully Ghosttown will keep it steady.
In Sam Smith's defence, surely his success is something we should all be happy about? I know that we were all really hoping for Madonna to get the number 1, but Sam Smith's a gay artist singing about gay themes, which from the first week it was released he was open about. So him being able to express himself, I would like to think, is at least in part, down to Madonna's legacy.
only in the minds of deluded Madonna fans can the social revolution around sexuality of the last 30 years be attributed in any way to their diva. Quite an insult to the millions of gay people who made it all possible themselves by coming out to their families, friends and workmates. Still it's gratifying to know she made our struggle so much easier by pretending to be a lesbian for a few weeks in 1991.
only in the minds of deluded Madonna fans can the social revolution around sexuality of the last 30 years be attributed in any way to their diva. Quite an insult to the millions of gay people who made it all possible themselves by coming out to their families, friends and workmates. Still it's gratifying to know she made our struggle so much easier by pretending to be a lesbian for a few weeks in 1991.
Pretty uncalled for. I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not certainly saying that todays modern climate regarding gay's and lesbians is attributed to Madonna and I haven't read anything else yet that says so either.
However, I do think that you're underestimating the impact that she did have. She has always supported LGBT and especially supported the HIV and AIDS community when it was deeply unfashionable to do so. Is she the only one? No, but she certainly played more than her part.
If you actually do some research on the issue, I don't think you'd be so dismissive of her support. Very negative.
I don't see trends on this album at all. She worked with some songwriters like Mozella who aren't just dj's.
But she has worked with dj's from the beginning of her career such as Jellybean. I can't see her totally abandoning dj's and not working with them because that's part of music that she relates to.
There are a lot of vulnerable human and also humourous moments on this album so I don't understand how people say that isn't coming through in her music, but just in her interviews.
The thing is -the DJs she worked with in the past were very much underground, cutting edge pioneers at the point when she worked with them. They became successful themselves later by Madonna being the pioneer of their sound.
Nowadays, she is using ESTABLISHED acts as producers, who's sound is already too well known. And because of that her stuff sounds derivative...
Ghost town is a great song, i agree by the way-but such a good track deserves a more distinctive production-thats the aspect that leaves it a bit unmemorable...
If I were Madonna's manager, I would be encouraging her to stop playing it all so safe-get on amateur DJ sites/Soundcloud or even YouTube to find new talents and sounds that would give her the inspiration to create great innovative music again.
So much young talent would give their eye teeth to work with someone like her-not because of her fame, or because of who she is, or what she could do for them-but as a fearless pioneer and a strong woman who is willing to try something new.
And i say this as someone who isn't a particular fan of hers. But she deserves credit for how much she has contributed to pop music and its boundaries.
ETA: Actually, she needs to really be looking at working with Sound Engineers/Sound Designers/Sound Artists as a starting block for her next project IMO.... someone who will provoke her to really tap her inner vocalist and lyricist in new ways again.
Remember-Cher (eeeuch) had one of her biggest successes as a Veteran Artist with Believe...and who would have predicted the soft porn rock chick would turn to electronic dance music to find renewed success?
only in the minds of deluded Madonna fans can the social revolution around sexuality of the last 30 years be attributed in any way to their diva. Quite an insult to the millions of gay people who made it all possible themselves by coming out to their families, friends and workmates. Still it's gratifying to know she made our struggle so much easier by pretending to be a lesbian for a few weeks in 1991.
LOL! It wouldn't be nearly so funny if it wasn't true!
Pretty uncalled for. I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not certainly saying that todays modern climate regarding gay's and lesbians is attributed to Madonna and I haven't read anything else yet that says so either.
However, I do think that you're underestimating the impact that she did have. She has always supported LGBT and especially supported the HIV and AIDS community when it was deeply unfashionable to do so. Is she the only one? No, but she certainly played more than her part.
If you actually do some research on the issue, I don't think you'd be so dismissive of her support. Very negative.
Yes-she did-but also, she was only one of many. Bands such as Bronski Beat/The Communards, Erasure, and the Pet Shop Boys all created instantly memorable songs, that contained messages about gay issues both of the time and of universal concerns. Cyndi Lauper is another artist of that era who publicly backed LGBT issues. Madonna was one of very very many who fought against public misconception and ignorance-and the fear caused by advertising.
And you may well not agree, but Madonna's 'Lesbianism' was one of those 'shocking' things she did to provoke a reaction... I don't think she ever made any concession to the 'issues' surrounding bisexuality-it was a very publicly played promotional tool more than anything! LOL
Rebel Heart is a decent enough Album, but i always feel that Madonna albums always work best with a sole producer-or a couple at most.
Like a Prayer works extremely well and cohesively because the Nature of the work she did with Stephen Bray complemented the Stuff with Patrick Leonard perfectly-they were flip sides to the same coin (The Prince Song -can't remember the name right now-was the one mis-step on that Album.)
Ray of Light works brilliantly because Orbit challenges EVERY aspect of Madonna. The Lyrics are more in depth and raw, her vocals are even more extremely varied and mature (an extension of her work on Evita)
Confessions hangs together due to Stuart Price-simple as. The variety of songs on there would never work as a cohesive whole without a common background.
Doing a couple of tracks her, a few there, and the odd one with someone else, makes Rebel Heart feel disjointed to me. There are some great numbers on there, but it feels more like a 'random shuffle' album than a properly executed collection with a 'theme' and progression.
I'm not a huge M fan-but I do appreciate a lot of her music, and value the fact that Pop Music today would be a very different beast without her innovations and stance. So often ahead of her times, it feels that her past three albums have purely tried to catch the tail end of already fading trends, and using producers more interested in utilising her as a method of promoting their own work and agendas, rather than producers who will use their skill set as way to get her working in unusual and unexpected ways.
She needs to go back to using producers who are 'producers'-not artists in their own rights. Trying to find sounds unique to her again, and setting trends rather than just copying them.
She seems a much more' human', humourous and relatable person nowadays-that's something that is coming across in her online persona and NOT in her music.
BIB - I have thought this too. I think Madonna is unfortunate in that she always seems to release at times just after or just before a big new trend has started.
e.g. Hard Candy she released in 2008, at the tail-end of the Timbaland-hip-pop production sound boom that Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake did so well off, and just before Lady Gaga debuted and brought electroclash-pop in as the cool, new thing.
MDNA she released in 2012, chasing M.I.A. who had already peaked's sound, Nicki Minaj who was just changing her sound, and Guetta-style dance pop which had peaked in 2011 ish. A track like Girl Gone Wild would have sounded much more fresh if it had been released the year before.
And now Rebel Heart in 2015. Well, what's in at the minute? House-influenced dance-pop music, although that's at the tail end, and the tail-end of Avicii country-dance music. She's got those sounds on the album of course, but at this point it just has the effect that she's got the tail-end of the trend. Hopefully some of the other styles of music she has on the album will become popular in the coming months and then she might get another hit.
That's where at least for me, Ray of Light and Confessions were different. They came at the start of the wave or in the middle of it, rather than at the tail-end so it appeared the songs were trying to tie in with something that had already been popular, like adults using kids' slag that's a year out of date. Unfortunately that's the impression it gives sometimes.
Having said that, I really enjoy the album and a few of the songs on it; I just can look at it with neutral eyes too and consider how it could be perceived.
I'm convinced that no matter what Madonna does, people will always criticize her for something. No one is ever happy. She really is that polarizing a figure.
You can't please everyone, so I'm glad she's pleasing herself. Are other artists criticized and scrutinized the way she is? I really don't think they are.
I have mixed feelings about Ghosttown. I love it and think it's a great song, but at the same time I hate that people want her to do just that kind of mature ballad music and not do the more fun dancey things as well.
And William Orbit was very much established before he did Ray of Light, so all this stuff about underground producers/dj's is just not factual. So was Stuart Price who did Confessions. She works with who she feels comfortable with and has chemistry with, not necessarily who is unknown and underground.
And now Rebel Heart in 2015. Well, what's in at the minute? House-influenced dance-pop music, although that's at the tail end, and the tail-end of Avicii country-dance music. She's got those sounds on the album of course, but at this point it just has the effect that she's got the tail-end of the trend. Hopefully some of the other styles of music she has on the album will become popular in the coming months and then she might get another hit.
Having said that, I really enjoy the album and a few of the songs on it; I just can look at it with neutral eyes too and consider how it could be perceived.
It's not about trends, it's being Madonna. Madonna has always had a house influence to some of her songs. She has done country mixed with dance going back to Don't Tell Me on Music. She also has done acoustic mixed with dance on American Life. Why can't people listen to the album as songs instead of worrying if it's behind or ahead of some "trend" in music? She herself said she wrote this album just trying to write good songs not thinking about the direction or the production or trying to jump on some bandwagon of trends.
Comments
These are my 3 least favourite Madonna albums and none of them were number ones. I'm still really struggleing to enjoy Rebel Heart, I want to like it but I just don't.
Today, I listened to Ray of Light (which reached #2 in USA), Music, American Life (again - really starting to adore this album) and Rebel Heart. As much as I like RH, it does come across as fairly disjointed. Bitch, I'm Madonna really spoil it for me. You have five great tracks in a row, then BiM really destroys the flow. It is fairly a messy tracklist order compared to the previous albums. It is an album of hers that I think is fabulous now, but probably won't play very much in a couple of months, instead going back to her older material. I love Music, I love MDNA too, I said last night that actually listening to MDNA after RH, it sounds stronger and flows much more cohesively.
That said, I do like RH. It is a fabulous pop album and definetely deserved the number 1 slot. But hey ho, such is life and as long as the tour sells and Interscope make back their £40m after the third album has come, then no one is really going to care - except the fans!
Why? Rebel Heart is probably her most eclectic album. Something for everyone. I don't see how someone can't find something on to enjoy, even if they don't like every song. In some ways it has something in common with American Life, in that it's probably one of her least "dance" and "club" oriented albums. Living for Love is really the only typical dance track.
I love that. I'm not a huge club person. I like the more song pop driven feel of it. But I do wonder if she will do remixes of some of the songs for the tour. Some of the songs may not fit in with the traditional style of her tour with dancers and choreography. But I love the album.
She said she tried to write good songs and not think so much about production at first and it really shows.
I guess I don't look for cohesiveness in albums. In fact if they are cohesive, I get bored. I usually only listen to albums in the order of the cd a few times. I tend to pick out songs I love and mix them in playlists with songs by other artists. To me there's no comparison between RH and MDNA. I like MDNA, but Rebel Heart is so much better. RH has many more timeless melodies than I can see myself listening to years from now and enjoying. Whereas MDNA feels more of the moment. There's so much more heart and feeling and depth to Rebel Heart than MDNA.
I guess as Madonna fans, we have been spoilt over the years. Even her "bad" albums are good, but her bad albums are always divisive. It is easy being a Madonna fan when her fans universally agree that an album is great. Not so easy when the albums divide opinion. Why is it not easy? Because it is hard to try and say what you like about the 'bad' record when others are expressing their dislike, and of course vice versa. The very fact that she divides opinion suggests in itself that her 'bad' albums are subjective and is purely down to a matter of preference which means they're also good.. For instance you hear MDNA as being more of the moment, whereas I hear it as melodic, relevant and current. I hear RH as an album full of superb pop songs, and I agree that you can tell she has really put her all into the songwriting. But, I don't get the "WOW!" from it that I got from her past albums - even Hard Candy. Hard Candy made me feel excited when I heard Give It 2 Me and Heartbeat, but again, it was an album I played for a while but then stopped listening to it.
Maybe the problem with RH is that I have heard it too often before release. There was excitement last Monday when I waited for my copy from Amazon. Then there became disappointment when it didn't come. So, I went to Sainsburys and they only had the standard. But I bought it simply because I had received or purchased every Madonna album on release day since Like a Prayer was released. I didn't want to not have it last Monday, so I had the "Oh it'll have to do" standard version. My Amazon copy came last Tuesday. But the excitement had gone and I haven't heard Rebel Heart since Thursday. I still want it to do well, her vocals are amazing on all the ballad tracks, but I think I'm just pissed off with the way the whole era has been handled and I've subconsciously given up on it. I can't even afford tickets to the tour because they're really expensive.
This isn't a Madonna thread? Are you sure?
I could have sworn the title was 'Madonna-Rebel Heart'!
Although due to the fact we had the first 9 tracks already available, my brain has kinda split the album up into two halves. Living for Love to Iconic I already knew pretty well so this week i've been focusing on the 2nd half. I have to say that the latter tracks are among the strongest.
That's interesting. Madonna fans are a diverse lot. But I think the general feeling at forums about Rebel Heart is most fans seem to love it. Hard Candy and MDNA were much more divisive. It's great that you love them as do I , but that seemed to be a minority opinion among most fans. I have not really read too much negativity about Rebel Heart from fans. Some of the more ballad stuff like Ghosttown, Heartbreak City, Wash All Over Me and Joan of Arc seems to have won back some of the older fans who were turned off by HC and MDNA. And a lot of people are saying that her vocals are much better on RH than the last two albums.
Also, while I won't deny Sam Smith his success, he seems to follow a pattern that the British Public always set. One person becomes "the" one to follow for a while and they are everywhere for a period of time and then the public moves on. We've seen ti so many times, Dido, Norah Jones, Alanis Morrisette, Emil Sande etc etc..people who are flavour of the month with a certain area of the amrket , then can't follow up.
Even though Adele had huge success with 21, I'm not even sure she can come back to that level of success either. People are so fickle.
I think I'm trying to say that I agree that RH is a really good album. To call it a bad album would be ludicrous. It is also her best lyrically since Confessions. (I love Like It Or Not - one of the best M songs ever), and I do really love the ballads on RH. As a fan, I am part of the universe who says it is a great album. But, (and it is only a small but), I just don't get the tingles from it like I did other albums of hers.
I think the magic of hearing new Madonna music was totally wiped away from the leaks. It is my fault, I tried to resist, but people were saying how much they loved them. So, I relented. I heard them. I felt slightly underwhelmed, partly because they were demos and clearly unfinished, but also because I felt guilty. This has probably affected how I perceive the album now. I don't like Bitch, I'm Madonna. It really is a moronic track and really does scream of "look at how wiv da yoof I am." Of course, I do think RH is worthy of awards and fully appreciat it as a personal and honest album. But, I am saddened at how Madonna's career is so badly handled now and that has also affected the way I view her work. It makes me think "Why is she bothering? Interscope don't give a toss about her!" It is difficult to explain, but I am so disillusioned by everything at the moment (not just Madonna wise - I'm going through a rough patch), it is hard for me to fully enjoy the album.
Perhaps that's why I enjoy MDNA. It is lighter and fluffier (well except Gang Bang that still scares the shit out of me!), and is easy to absorb into.
It doesn't really bother me that it didn't debut at #1 or how badly her career is handled as long as we get new music and tours. I only worry about bad management if that somehow leads to music not being released or tours being cancelled.
I guess I pay no attention to chart positions really because I would say 90% or more of the artists I love are indie/alternative artists who don't really chart very high. What I care about is that music is released and I enjoy it.
I think you just have to be realistic. Madonna is not going to have the same success as younger artists. Compared to most artists who started out in the 80's she is doing far better than they are chartwise.No matter how she is managed she is not going to have the same success as she did in the 80's and 90's because she is older and because people don't buy albums like they used to.
I am loving this whole era. I love that she is doing interviews and tv promo. I like reading interviews with her and how she thinks about her music. That was one thing that was missing in the HC and MDNA eras. A lot of it is maybe more in the US but you can read so many cool interviews with her online.
Like a Prayer works extremely well and cohesively because the Nature of the work she did with Stephen Bray complemented the Stuff with Patrick Leonard perfectly-they were flip sides to the same coin (The Prince Song -can't remember the name right now-was the one mis-step on that Album.)
Ray of Light works brilliantly because Orbit challenges EVERY aspect of Madonna. The Lyrics are more in depth and raw, her vocals are even more extremely varied and mature (an extension of her work on Evita)
Confessions hangs together due to Stuart Price-simple as. The variety of songs on there would never work as a cohesive whole without a common background.
Doing a couple of tracks her, a few there, and the odd one with someone else, makes Rebel Heart feel disjointed to me. There are some great numbers on there, but it feels more like a 'random shuffle' album than a properly executed collection with a 'theme' and progression.
I'm not a huge M fan-but I do appreciate a lot of her music, and value the fact that Pop Music today would be a very different beast without her innovations and stance. So often ahead of her times, it feels that her past three albums have purely tried to catch the tail end of already fading trends, and using producers more interested in utilising her as a method of promoting their own work and agendas, rather than producers who will use their skill set as way to get her working in unusual and unexpected ways.
She needs to go back to using producers who are 'producers'-not artists in their own rights. Trying to find sounds unique to her again, and setting trends rather than just copying them.
She seems a much more' human', humourous and relatable person nowadays-that's something that is coming across in her online persona and NOT in her music.
We can but hope. However, I'm not sure we will see another madonna album for a long time and if we do, i don't think it will be in the way she has doen before. Madonna on average does a new album every 2 to 3 years. So the next one that comes out, she will be pushing 60. I would also like to see her work with just a few people and stay focused and also not any DJ's.
Just home Ghosttown catches the ear of the casuals and helps stablise the album and give it some legs.
But she has worked with dj's from the beginning of her career such as Jellybean. I can't see her totally abandoning dj's and not working with them because that's part of music that she relates to.
There are a lot of vulnerable human and also humourous moments on this album so I don't understand how people say that isn't coming through in her music, but just in her interviews.
Yes I agree.. I didn't mean to quote that part.
But she was 46 when Confessions was released - 46 is certainly 'older' than the likes of Taylor, Rihanna & Katy - but it just exploded; everything about that era was just bang on; the image, the music, the single choices, the tour - everything went perfectly & she sold 12m copies of that album worldwide, with Hung Up selling 5m copies worldwide. And this was the follow up to the (alleged) flop, American Life (which I like, btw). AL sold 5m & was considered a flop - wouldn't we all love if RH could manage to sell anywhere near that.
The leaks certainly have not helped RH, because it's a great album - I'm absolutely loving it. As I've said before, I sort of hate that she had to release six songs before Christmas & then three more in February - we'd all heard half the album before we bought it - and I'll admit I had looked up a few of the other songs on YouTube so I knew most of the songs before I had the album. That took away from the experience of buying a new album & not knowing any of the songs except whatever single(s) had already been released. Still though, it's great to have new Madonna music.
I don't know if social media & internet has done her any favours either. I know it's the age we live in now but compare now to ten years ago. Facebook & YouTube had barely started & there was no Twitter or Instagram. Celebrities were not as easily accessible so there was more of an air of mystery about them & so new album releases were more highly anticipated. There probably weren't all these forums either or comments sections on news/entertainment sites, where unfortunately a lot of people are now spouting nasty opinions - in Madonna's case, ageism - and it's spreading. You will not find an article on the internet about Madonna these days that doesn't feature at least one comment along the lines of "retire Grandma!"
All of the above coupled with the fact that downloads are killing CD sales, doesn't help matters. A lot has changed in the last ten years.
Do we really need to resort to calling other artists names and trivialising their careers? It’s childish and juvenile. I think some people need a little bit of air. Madonna talks about everyone respecting and loving each other, so it's a shame that some people are so quick to become mean-spirited over something so trivial. Do you really think Madonna is sitting up tonight worrying because she got to #2? I doubt it, it's not the first time in her career, and it probably won't be the last. The album is charting well around the world, hopefully Ghosttown will keep it steady.
only in the minds of deluded Madonna fans can the social revolution around sexuality of the last 30 years be attributed in any way to their diva. Quite an insult to the millions of gay people who made it all possible themselves by coming out to their families, friends and workmates. Still it's gratifying to know she made our struggle so much easier by pretending to be a lesbian for a few weeks in 1991.
Pretty uncalled for. I haven't read the whole thread, but I'm not certainly saying that todays modern climate regarding gay's and lesbians is attributed to Madonna and I haven't read anything else yet that says so either.
However, I do think that you're underestimating the impact that she did have. She has always supported LGBT and especially supported the HIV and AIDS community when it was deeply unfashionable to do so. Is she the only one? No, but she certainly played more than her part.
If you actually do some research on the issue, I don't think you'd be so dismissive of her support. Very negative.
The thing is -the DJs she worked with in the past were very much underground, cutting edge pioneers at the point when she worked with them. They became successful themselves later by Madonna being the pioneer of their sound.
Nowadays, she is using ESTABLISHED acts as producers, who's sound is already too well known. And because of that her stuff sounds derivative...
Ghost town is a great song, i agree by the way-but such a good track deserves a more distinctive production-thats the aspect that leaves it a bit unmemorable...
If I were Madonna's manager, I would be encouraging her to stop playing it all so safe-get on amateur DJ sites/Soundcloud or even YouTube to find new talents and sounds that would give her the inspiration to create great innovative music again.
So much young talent would give their eye teeth to work with someone like her-not because of her fame, or because of who she is, or what she could do for them-but as a fearless pioneer and a strong woman who is willing to try something new.
And i say this as someone who isn't a particular fan of hers. But she deserves credit for how much she has contributed to pop music and its boundaries.
ETA: Actually, she needs to really be looking at working with Sound Engineers/Sound Designers/Sound Artists as a starting block for her next project IMO.... someone who will provoke her to really tap her inner vocalist and lyricist in new ways again.
Remember-Cher (eeeuch) had one of her biggest successes as a Veteran Artist with Believe...and who would have predicted the soft porn rock chick would turn to electronic dance music to find renewed success?
LOL! It wouldn't be nearly so funny if it wasn't true!
Yes-she did-but also, she was only one of many. Bands such as Bronski Beat/The Communards, Erasure, and the Pet Shop Boys all created instantly memorable songs, that contained messages about gay issues both of the time and of universal concerns. Cyndi Lauper is another artist of that era who publicly backed LGBT issues. Madonna was one of very very many who fought against public misconception and ignorance-and the fear caused by advertising.
And you may well not agree, but Madonna's 'Lesbianism' was one of those 'shocking' things she did to provoke a reaction... I don't think she ever made any concession to the 'issues' surrounding bisexuality-it was a very publicly played promotional tool more than anything! LOL
BIB - I have thought this too. I think Madonna is unfortunate in that she always seems to release at times just after or just before a big new trend has started.
e.g. Hard Candy she released in 2008, at the tail-end of the Timbaland-hip-pop production sound boom that Nelly Furtado and Justin Timberlake did so well off, and just before Lady Gaga debuted and brought electroclash-pop in as the cool, new thing.
MDNA she released in 2012, chasing M.I.A. who had already peaked's sound, Nicki Minaj who was just changing her sound, and Guetta-style dance pop which had peaked in 2011 ish. A track like Girl Gone Wild would have sounded much more fresh if it had been released the year before.
And now Rebel Heart in 2015. Well, what's in at the minute? House-influenced dance-pop music, although that's at the tail end, and the tail-end of Avicii country-dance music. She's got those sounds on the album of course, but at this point it just has the effect that she's got the tail-end of the trend. Hopefully some of the other styles of music she has on the album will become popular in the coming months and then she might get another hit.
That's where at least for me, Ray of Light and Confessions were different. They came at the start of the wave or in the middle of it, rather than at the tail-end so it appeared the songs were trying to tie in with something that had already been popular, like adults using kids' slag that's a year out of date. Unfortunately that's the impression it gives sometimes.
Having said that, I really enjoy the album and a few of the songs on it; I just can look at it with neutral eyes too and consider how it could be perceived.
You can't please everyone, so I'm glad she's pleasing herself. Are other artists criticized and scrutinized the way she is? I really don't think they are.
I have mixed feelings about Ghosttown. I love it and think it's a great song, but at the same time I hate that people want her to do just that kind of mature ballad music and not do the more fun dancey things as well.
And William Orbit was very much established before he did Ray of Light, so all this stuff about underground producers/dj's is just not factual. So was Stuart Price who did Confessions. She works with who she feels comfortable with and has chemistry with, not necessarily who is unknown and underground.
It's not about trends, it's being Madonna. Madonna has always had a house influence to some of her songs. She has done country mixed with dance going back to Don't Tell Me on Music. She also has done acoustic mixed with dance on American Life. Why can't people listen to the album as songs instead of worrying if it's behind or ahead of some "trend" in music? She herself said she wrote this album just trying to write good songs not thinking about the direction or the production or trying to jump on some bandwagon of trends.